disclaimer: I maybe wrong on perceiving this but i want t know your take on this.
What i see is liberal islam has a tendency to adjust Islamic interpretations according to materialistic ideas. in most cases, the essence of following the religion which is spirituality (not materialism) is disregarded.
with the passage of time, tendency to have the actual reason for following the religion is disappearing.
what you say?
Re: Liberal Islam
Please elaborate what you mean by liberal Islam?
Re: Liberal Islam
Islam was designed as a religion for all the times to come, able to stay relevant as the best constitution for personal, social, national and international utilities. Islam is an open-ended religion which allows maneuverability adopted within the fundamental and ideological perimeters that serve as its core. Therefore, I would say that the actual reason to follow the religion cannot change. You do not follow your religion because it suits you. You follow it because of some undeniable facts that there is a God who has created everything for your life to sustain.
I would not wholly subscribe to the notion that Islam is all about spirituality and materialism has no place in it. The very insistence of Islam on establishing a society and working for the betterment of the people make a case for materialism. Having said that, we need to know how Islam sees materialism? If spirituality was all Islam wanted to seek from its followers, then it would have emphasized more on godly matters than humanity, which we know is not the case.
Re: Liberal Islam
Didn't understand last sentence Amal. You r equating materialism with humanity.
Re: Liberal Islam
Didn't understand last sentence Amal. You r equating materialism with humanity.
Humanity is essentially a social trait, so materialism is bound to have some direct or indirect links with it. I would again want to go back to my point as to how one describes materialism. The concept of a functional society may not complete without having to deal with materialism. Materialism would generally mean anti-religion because it cuts through spirituality, but then we would need to accept that Islam lays its focus entirely on spirituality and disregards basic natural frailties of a human being that drag it into materialism. If we go by this explanation, then the next question would be if Islam is incompatible with natural instincts of a human being? This won't be true.
BTW, I guess we have come a bit away from OP's question :)
Re: Liberal Islam
To clarify in my words about what Liberal Islam means to me ...
Liberal in Islam is to play fast and loose with scripture, turn obligations in to optionals, turns good deeds into nice to haves and sets the basic criteria for goodness between other humans as the position that is most appeasing and conforming with societal trends and fashions of the day rather than by a strict immoveable criteria through time.
It looks at religion as a set of things we 'want' to do as important and the things we don't want to do as unimportant. So it is very much driven by our desires ... Liberal Islam has no concept of Jihad ... Neither the inner nor the outer forms ... Members of it may however pay some sort of lip service to Jihad.
Liberal Islam is out for the quick gain and is disinterested in long term wisdoms ... For this reason it is utilitarian as it focused on productivity and progress first before looking at tradition and preservation. Rather tradition and preservation are viewed through the lens of progress and productivity also.
Liberal Islam avoids mastery in the subject ... It is not concerned with being brilliant ... Just good enough will do ... Rather it re-frames being just good enough as the higher ideal above mastery.
Re: Liberal Islam
Qur'aan says [meaning]:
come to the folds of Islam COMPLETELY!
it means we must fit ourselves in Islam and NOT fit Islam in ourselves. This culture of 'PICK n CHOOSE' in Islam is hurting US as Muslims in this world and will hurt us in the hereafter.
Re: Liberal Islam
Humanity is essentially a social trait, so materialism is bound to have some direct or indirect links with it. I would again want to go back to my point as to how one describes materialism. The concept of a functional society may not complete without having to deal with materialism. Materialism would generally mean anti-religion because it cuts through spirituality, but then we would need to accept that Islam lays its focus entirely on spirituality and disregards basic natural frailties of a human being that drag it into materialism. If we go by this explanation, then the next question would be if Islam is incompatible with natural instincts of a human being? This won't be true.
BTW, I guess we have come a bit away from OP's question :)
This assumes that spirituality is only associated with religion. And humanity with materialism. Some would say one can be spirititual and humanistic. And that religion is not a necessary ingredient in spiritual ity
Re: Liberal Islam
A religion is defined by three categories:
'ibadat - worship and worship structure (rites and rituals)
'aadaat - habits, routines, manners and mannerisms
mu'amalaat - dealings, codes of conduct, behaviours and attitudes towards others
Spiritual heights are reached in worship, spirituality may permeate slowly in habits and when dealing with people a spiritual state can emanate ... All of these come with mindfulness and sincerity ... Which if present enhance and ensure the full benefit ...
Re: Liberal Islam
Interpreting texts from the 7th century = 10 year old reading high school algebra. You will do all exercises wrong but will read out the instructions correctly. A genius here and there may just be able to get it but will not be able to make other 10 year olds understand. No one's fault.
Re: Liberal Islam
Interpreting texts from the 7th century = 10 year old reading high school algebra. You will do all exercises wrong but will read out the instructions correctly. A genius here and there may just be able to get it but will not be able to make other 10 year olds understand. No one's fault.
Peace Theorist
This is unusual for you to favour the ancient over the contemporary ... Interesting.
I don't think it's quite as stark as that because that is what tradition is meant for ... So people don't have to read an alien culture and language ... It simply gets inherited by them and taught by the previous generation. We don't just pick up old texts, but we have lots of texts that have been documented through time as a legacy ... Collectively they help.
Re: Liberal Islam
How do we even make divisions with liberal, moderate, etc. I've user the words myself, but I think maybe a person uses these degrees after comparing with themselves. For instance, I don't do hijab, but I try to say my prayers and adhere to the pillars, and I avoid drinking, clubbing, etc etctc. A friend who doesn't pray thinks i'm very religious. To my friend who wears a burqa and hijab, I may be seen as liberal or moderate.
Re: Liberal Islam
How do we even make divisions with liberal, moderate, etc. I've user the words myself, but I think maybe a person uses these degrees after comparing with themselves. For instance, I don't do hijab, but I try to say my prayers and adhere to the pillars, and I avoid drinking, clubbing, etc etctc. A friend who doesn't pray thinks i'm very religious. To my friend who wears a burqa and hijab, I may be seen as liberal or moderate.
I was thinking the same thing RV.
whats liberal to one may not be to someone else. i have seen some people thinking being liberal is not wearing hijab while some consider drinking alcohol to be too liberal. it also differs in different cultures. european muslims(turkish and balkans) seem to be more liberal compared to desi muslims. i have many lebanese friends who think wearing skirts is perfectly okay whereas desis usually view that is too liberal.
i have also heard of many different interpretations of islam (other religions as well). i have not come across any faith where all the followers have same interpretation.
Re: Liberal Islam
People confuse liberal with being non religious.
Re: Liberal Islam
^ true. politically I am not a liberal, yet i am non-religious.
Re: Liberal Islam
And me vice versa.
Re: Liberal Islam
Liberal simply means following
1) equal rights for all
2) freedom to practice any faith or no faith
3) Providing a safety net
4) Providing a level playing field.
So regardless of what u call urself u r a liberal!
I believe liberal Islam "movement" arose as a result of perceived clashes that it may have with western laws in particular. For example, it was common practice to have hands chopped off for robbery (I'm not entirely sure if this was a purely cultural practice or of Islam actually permits this). In the west that would simply be considered inhumane so people try to redefine the boundaries of Islam to incorporate western thinking into it. In short, liberal Islam is the term coined to describe Islam when western values are incorporated into it, where there is a clash of actual Islamic laws and and western laws. Probably made no sense as this majority of my posts but mehhh. Worth a shot lmao
Re: Liberal Islam
Peace Theorist
This is unusual for you to favour the ancient over the contemporary ... Interesting.
I don't think it's quite as stark as that because that is what tradition is meant for ... So people don't have to read an alien culture and language ... It simply gets inherited by them and taught by the previous generation. We don't just pick up old texts, but we have lots of texts that have been documented through time as a legacy ... Collectively they help.
My analogy still applies. How? Say a genius 10 year old writes the instructions that will be easy to understand for other average 10 year olds. He then hands them the same algebra exercises. The average 10 year olds will still not understand because their mental capacity isn't there at the age of 10. First, you are giving them as assignment that is beyond their understanding. Second, you are asking them to do it correctly. The expectation for them to do the exercises correctly is wrong but you can expect them to read out the instructions.
just because something is old doesn't mean it is lacking wisdom. I never say there is no wisdom in religious texts. There certainly is... But to expect everyone to understand it exactly the way you do is ridiculous.
Re: Liberal Islam
But to expect everyone to understand it exactly the way you do is ridiculous.
Well said Theorist!
it's so obvious that no 2 people have the same interpretation or same understanding of religion. even within 1 family, the views on religion and how they understand it seems to be different.