letting culture rule...retaining moral high ground vs getting what you want?

i consider and prefer myself to be a conservative. hardcore stickler for convention and tradition. as much as possible . not anti-leftist but a proud rightist… i THINK…if someone calls me conservative i take it as a compliment…i like being thought of as conservative rather than liberal…

my parents both belong to very traditional families and have strong moral values but are one of the few individuals in both their families with higher education…as individuals they are liberal minded, and do not stick to tradition that much in many cases. they even sent me at 16 to america, alone female and i dint have any relatives there which many people from our family considered outrageous. but thankfully to God i think i turned out normal [highly debatable] :smiley: my siblings are not conservative as such but we always know our limits in everything. and my parents are extremely extremely understanding and accepting, they are there for us as pillars of support but give us our space in every thing. not once in my life i have left that they put undue restrictions on me. alhamdulillah.

myself tho i’ve always had a classic view of eastern culture. this happenned more after i left pakistan at a young age. i created an untouchable image of PAKISTANI CULTURE in my mind, and always tried, however much possible given my situation, to stick to those guidelines defined by that picture, even if sometimes practically they led me to loss. and they did many times. but i still have the satisfaction that atleast i stood ‘moral high ground’ and ‘retained my values’…? i became even more conservative after going to america than my friends in pakistan, right now i think i am even more conservative than them in many things. but i found a comfort in that as taking the conservative approach is always safer. maybe its for the weak hearted? i dont know :S

often the whole world, including all pakistanis, around me were involved in things and i was not because i said to myself, this is against our culture, even if it wasn’t against religion.

recently, as i’ve come back to pakistan and become part of real life and seen different kinds of people from different backgrounds, i’ve realised there is no cultural mould one needs to fit into. one should be brave enough to live life like they want to live it as long as those who care about them don’t have complaints, the most important characteristic a person should possess is faith in Allah and belief in oneself, ofcourse tempered with humility. the cultural image is perhaps an elusive ideal but realities are different… maybe one should just do what they think is RIGHT, islamically right and does not hurt anybody.

these days i was faced with a decision to break a cultural barrier and try to achieve something i really really wanted. i flirted with fire and went through phases whether to give in to what i wanted because islamically there was nothing wrong with it.

my decision making power really really sucks. in the end i decided to let go of what i could have had, and just stick to my high moral ground…it was the tougher route for me, perhaps that is why i chose it. some people told me its my stubbbornness and i like making my life difficult. i dont know.

a want is something worldly and giving up a want is after all just self denial. even if i suffer, i will suffer, i am prepared to suffer. i would rather suffer than degrade myself or compromise on morals. and afterall…you haven’t lost anything if you haven’t lost your dignity…thats what matters most…

hmmm…

i’m just curious to know what path you would choose in such situations and if you ever felt such dilemmas?

looking fwd to reading ur replies :slight_smile:

Screw culture.

I know i'm blunt.

If it is something good and you really want it then go for it because when you will regret later on neither culture nor traditions would come to wipe your tears. May Allah :swt: makes it easier for you to reach the correct decision.

A couple of years ago, I realised that I was detached enough from my culture not be able to take any comfort from it or use it for guidance. I try to substitute religion for the role I guess culture plays for you - I'm generally willing to do anything without question if i believe it's religiously justifiable, and only doubt or question those actions of mine that I know to be against Islam.

Are you implying that you can not get what you want by being on a higher moral ground? Are there things that are worth getting but one needs to be a little bit on the unethical side? If yes, please provide examples.

can someone give me a summary of what this whole thing is about?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fayz: *
Are you implying that you can not get what you want by being on a higher moral ground? Are there things that are worth getting but one needs to be a little bit on the unethical side? If yes, please provide examples.
[/QUOTE]

I can give you one. I view conventional banking careers as being unethical due to involvement with riba. On the other hand, the huge salary you get makes it worth getting. I had a very good shot at getting into one of the biggest banks in the world, because they have an established policy of giving preferential employment to the children of long-term employees (even over more meritous candidates). Every single child of an existing employee who I know that has applied to the bank got recruited - and I knew that I was a stronger job candidate than any of them were.

However, by belief that employment there was against the ethics of my religion led me to turn down what what have been a sure-fire high-paying job (starting at about 30% more per year than what I eventually started at) and search around for a lower-paying job but which I could take without feeling that I lost my own moral high ground.

Chandbeti, this is what I think she's saying:

Irem is right-wing, ultra-conservative and is on a moral high-ground cause she values her culture and is willing to sacrifice her desires if it goes against her culture, even if these desires are Islamically acceptable.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. :p

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chandbeti: *
can someone give me a summary of what this whole thing is about?
[/QUOTE]

never mind.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
I can give you one. I view conventional banking careers as being unethical due to involvement with riba. On the other hand, the huge salary you get makes it worth getting. I had a very good shot at getting into one of the biggest banks in the world, because they have an established policy of giving preferential employment to the children of long-term employees (even over more meritous candidates). Every single child of an existing employee who I know that has applied to the bank got recruited - and I knew that I was a stronger job candidate than any of them were.

However, by belief that employment there was against the ethics of my religion led me to turn down what what have been a sure-fire high-paying job (starting at about 30% more per year than what I eventually started at) and search around for a lower-paying job but which I could take without feeling that I lost my own moral high ground.
[/QUOTE]

Are you saying..all those people who are working in the bank that you rejected are immoral?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by MehnazQ: *
Chandbeti, this is what *I think
she's saying:

Irem is right-wing, ultra-conservative and is on a moral high-ground cause she values her culture and is willing to sacrifice her desires if it goes against her culture, even if these desires are Islamically acceptable.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. :p
[/QUOTE]

oh, the same old eh. :-p
The post was too long for me to go through it.

FG: put it back on.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fayz: *

Are you saying..all those people who are working in the bank that you rejected are immoral?
[/QUOTE]

In my opinion, everyone who worked there, including my father, were involved in an immoral act by doing so :)

In the end, I went to work for a multinational company that's been certified by Islamic scholars as conducting business in accordance with Islamic Principles.

I'm making less money than I could have been making, but it's still a good career and most importantly I'm happy that I made no sacrifice on my moral principles and that I'm involved in an ethical business.

Re: letting culture rule...retaining moral high ground vs getting what you want?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
recently, as i've come back to pakistan and become part of real life and seen different kinds of people from different backgrounds, i've realised there is no cultural mould one needs to fit into. one should be brave enough to live life like they want to live it as long as those who care about them don't have complaints, the most important characteristic a person should possess is faith in Allah and belief in oneself, ofcourse tempered with humility. the cultural image is perhaps an elusive ideal but realities are different.... maybe one should just do what they think is RIGHT, islamically right and does not hurt anybody.

these days i was faced with a decision to break a cultural barrier and try to achieve something i really really wanted. *i flirted with fire and went through phases whether to give in to what i wanted because islamically there was nothing wrong with it. *

my decision making power really really sucks. in the end i decided to let go of what i could have had, and just stick to my high moral ground...it was the tougher route for me, perhaps that is why i chose it. some people told me its my stubbbornness and i like making my life difficult. i dont know.

a want is something worldly and giving up a want is after all just self denial. even if i suffer, i will suffer, i am prepared to suffer. i would rather suffer than degrade myself or compromise on morals. and afterall....you haven't lost anything if you haven't lost your dignity...thats what matters most...

[/QUOTE]

Irem,

I'm a bit confused. You planned to get something because you thought it was islamically right for you to do so, yet then you backed out at the end because it conflicted with "higher moral ground" ? Waqai meiN, I honestly don't understand that part. If it was islamically right, then how could it conflict with "higher moral ground" ?

Re: Re: letting culture rule...retaining moral high ground vs getting what you want?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ~Sehar~: *
Irem,

I'm a bit confused. You planned to get something because you thought it was islamically right for you to do so, yet then you backed out at the end because it conflicted with "higher moral ground" ? Waqai meiN, I honestly don't understand that part. If it was islamically right, then how could it conflict with "higher moral ground" ?
[/QUOTE]

Good point Sehar... you articulated what has been nagging me but I just couldn't find the words to express.

What moral ground could possibly be higher than the Islamic moral ground?

^ common sense, maybe. Sometimes it supercedes things in scripture. And it is your misfortune and lack of understanding what Riba means. I can gruarantee you I can find RIba hard at work at your company. In fact I will put money on it. Wanna play?

Yeah common sense after all what would god know.:rolleyes:

^ exactly..now you are making sense.

Maybe you didnt notice the sarcasm

Apparently you don't have a keen grasp on that trait either.

Re: Re: letting culture rule...retaining moral high ground vs getting what you want?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ~Sehar~: *

Irem,

I'm a bit confused. You planned to get something because you thought it was islamically right for you to do so, yet then you backed out at the end because it conflicted with "higher moral ground" ? Waqai meiN, I honestly don't understand that part. If it was islamically right, then how could it conflict with "higher moral ground" ?
[/QUOTE]

Agree with Sehar.