We should look to a clear basis and analyse things in depth. Perhaps we should let the ahmadis herein argue their case in detail.
Instead of bringing all the issues at once, I think we should deal with one issue at a time.
The first issue has to be the finality of Muhammad (SAW). What evidence is there that this ‘may’ not be the case? Please let’s look at this then we can continue to other areas.
I request any ahmadi representatives here to be free and mature to bring any appropriate evidence to support your case. I am going to try asking questions before coming to any conclusions.
What we are likely to get is people who will copy and paste large volumes of claims and counterclaims I think this prevents in-depth analysis and I will try to curb that as much as possible.
The great jurist of Islamic Law, Imam Abu Hanifah (r.t.a), has ruled. Once a person claimed that he is a Prophet of ALLAH. Imam Abu Hanifah (r.t.a) made an announcement;
"Anyone who demands proof from him (a claimant to Prophethood) will become a Kafir (disbeliever), as Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.w) has emphatically said: 'No Prophet will come after me". (Manaqib Abi Hanifah).
The one who denies all the facts, the one who denies any one Ayah of Quran, the one who denies any true Hadith of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.w) and the last and the most important thing, he who declares anyone as the Prophet after the finality of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.w) or follows on his sayings;
"Is a Muslim or a Kafir"?. And if someone still doubts, is a Kafir himself.
dont think a this thread will be able to do what umpteen others threads were unable to do. so from my perspective...
lets not..
but you kids enjoy :)
Peace Fraudz
So what is this thread intended to do?
I genuinely want to hear the Ahmadiyya perspective and analyse their reasoning and evidence. I don't think other threads were out to do this.
^Most of the thread degenerate into bashing sessions... Ahmadi and Sunni POV's are irreconcilable.
To me there is nothing to discuss.
Core issue is, whether Mirza Sahib was Ziliwili Nabi or not, if we compare his personality with criteria for pious person mirza sahib and his later khleefas miserably fail this LITMUS test.
So what is this thread intended to do?
I genuinely want to hear the Ahmadiyya perspective and analyse their reasoning and evidence. I don't think other threads were out to do this.
yaar psyah I have seen barelvis and deobandis not agree let alone shia sunni or ahmedi and non ahmedi folks.
so while I respect your sincere attempts to reach out to our ahmedi members and have a discussion wit them. from what I have seen in past it may not bear fruit.
but dont let me cynicism get to you and keep you from what you are trying to do.
yaar psyah I have seen barelvis and deobandis not agree let alone shia sunni or ahmedi and non ahmedi folks.
so while I respect your sincere attempts to reach out to our ahmedi members and have a discussion wit them. from what I have seen in past it may not bear fruit.
but dont let me cynicism get to you and keep you from what you are trying to do.
*Totally agreed! Its pointless. *
Psyah: If you happen to be a curious soul, then do your research live.... I went to various masjid......got books and info.... Did my research, cant claim I got peace of mind. The more knowledge you tend to seek, the more questions and curiosity raises. Its never ending.....
** We have freedom of religion as desi living abroad. You cant exercise this right in watan without getting into major conflicts. Not to mention parents.**
All masjids are generous in providing info and books. Thats my suggestion. And face to face talk, has its own depths.
^Most of the thread degenerate into bashing sessions... Ahmadi and Sunni POV's are irreconcilable.
So per your assertion shias are content with qadianis and have no qualms, rather have agreement vis-a-vis attributing prophethood with those who came after the prophet Mohammad PBUH...
Psyah: If you happen to be a curious soul, then do your research live....I went to various masjid......got books and info.... Did my research, cant claim I got peace of mind. The more knowledge you tend to seek, the more questions and curiosity raises. Its never ending.....
** We have freedom of religion as desi living abroad. You cant exercise this right in watan without getting into major conflicts. Not to mention parents.**
All masjids are generous in providing info and books. Thats my suggestion. And face to face talk, has its own depths.
Peace Pathani
Thanks for the advice. I understand you are Ahmadi? If you are then how can you agree with what Fraudz has just said and if you are not then you are giving good advice.
I want to create a critical path of ideas for the sake of this forum. I have had many discussions in the past in my less informative years and one of my closest friends is an Ahmadi. Can you believe it? I bet many on this forum cannot. We discuss things in a mature fashion, but there are things that we get into that surpass his knowledge, so I have raised the issue here so I do not end up deeming a given following as false based on the lack of knowledge of it's adherents.
Perhaps you can shed a bit of light on this subject. What is the basis for the Ahmadiyya following to suggest that the finality of the prophet is NOT to be taken in the literal sense?
So per your assertion shias are content with qadianis and have no qualms, rather have agreement vis-a-vis attributing prophethood with those who came after the prophet Mohammad PBUH...
Problem is 'usually' behind sunnis and ahmedis because ahmedis are mostly found in a region that has a much higher percentage of sunnis than shias. if ahmedis were based in some village in Iran and not in Pakistan, we would be saying the opposite.
shias dont accept ahmedis as far as I have heard and as far as I know.
n for ahmediz/qadyaniz no one believes them as muslims…n i agree pointless to talk on this topic.
(never try to mix any color in black…it will remain black)
No, according to one of the posters above apparently only sunnis have a problem with qadiyanis…and shias having the monopoly on enlightenment and tolerance are content/indifferent in whatever transgression and fitna anybody proliferates…
^^ dude sunniz or other muslims dont have a problem…its qudiyaniat itself is a problem. no muslim consider qadyani as a muslim. hopefully u know wats fundamental pillar of muslim.
(i live my life more with shiaz n christians then wid sunni…so better not tell me wat r they n about their faith )
That depends on how much white we mix in it. Then we will get shades of grey. The idea as I’ll stress again is not to state that we are irreconcilable, rather to determine where it is that we differ and to analyse that difference to see, in detail what premise is firmer. It is a challenge that is open to the members of the Ahmadiyya community.
No, according to one of the posters above apparently only sunnis have a problem with qadiyanis...and shias having the monopoly on enlightenment and tolerance are content/indifferent in whatever transgression and fitna anybody proliferates...
Peace CheGuvera
I don't think that was the case with Salman Rushdie, but now they are using wisdom in their silence. Any way let's get back to the topic inshaAllah.
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