LeT talk about democracy

Well it had to happen … it seems Lashkar E Tayyaba has given a statement about using peacefull means. They are now talking about using “democratic” and “peacefull” means … guess they had enough of armed jihad.

Anyway it is a good sign and i hope it is not a reaction to the international pressure on such jehadi groups.
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

The outlawed Laskhar-e-Tayyaba (LT) announced on Sunday it would support a peaceful and democratic struggle to liberate Kashmir.

This news item came in on friday … but has found space in Pakistani press now only.

Re: LeT talk about democracy

[note]Follow the guidelines before coming up with the thread title[/note]

Title Edited to be more coherent with the posted article.

Once we are done prosecuting the LeT for its terrorist activities, there won’t be any of them left to fight “peacefully” :wink:

Re: LeT talk about democracy

^ Oh yes the mumbai police in their little laathiz and shorts will prosecute them! right?

LeT terrorists ke liye tumhare dil mein itna dard ? Whats up, dude ?? Coming out openly in support of terorists ??

Pakistan will … they are doing a good job … they just need a little bit of “pushing” once in a while … check for yourself

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan’s Premier NEWS Agency ) - Pakistan has complied with UN sanctions on terrorist groups: UN official

A senior United Nations official has said that Pakistan has “satisfactorily complied” with the UN’s sanctions on terrorist groups

“It is very difficult for a state to implement that (sanctions) completely, but yes in a way Pakistani government is working to ensure fruitful compliance,” he said.

The Pakistan Government acting after the United Nations declared the Jamaat‑ud‑Dawa a terrorist group and a front for Lashkar‑e‑Taiba has shuttered all of its offices, arrested scores of activists and put its entire leadership under house arrest

As for mumbai police “lathis” … you know what happened to the terrorist who was on the receiving end … he spilled everything !!!

For the sake of “non state” terrorists from Pakistan … hope they dont have to be at the recieving end of those lathis !!!

Re: LeT talk about democracy

oh yes, those raakhi wearing, alcohol drinking, abercrombie model gunmen vs the kachey aur laathi walley mumbai pocliyaz. I think ill pass.

Oh yeah that laathi must have been passed onto him by Moses himself, for that guy started speaking and writing hindi all of a sudden too while spilling out the 'beans'.

Your own government has accepted that "the guy" is a Pakistani.

Tum kyon abhi tak sharma rahe ho admit karne mein ??

This is what happens when you get your news from "tainted" sources ....... when did he write in hindi ?????

There are still good news organisations in Pakistan and you should follow these to get your news ....... may God guide you in your quest

Re: LeT talk about democracy

Well the indians started this thread, so may i ask what does democracy means in their country, in Pakistn LeT and alike cannot be in power in million years on the other hand BJP and RSS were in power and may win the upcoming elections...

On top of that, i think somebody on GS posted that hig % of indian politicians are either belong to underworld ( don type log) or they get elected because they had backing by elements from underworld..

Now is thats what the thread starter means by Democracy?

Democracy means what it means everywhere in the world ... people elected government ..... to simplify for you .... people go to polling station ... they vote for the candidate of their choice .... he gets elected ..... no role for army in this !!!!!!!!! simple.

As i have said before ... the day you have gun totting terrorist from BJP and RSS shooting and killing people in Pakistani cities, that day you can equate it with LeT ... till then there is no comparison between an internationally recognised "terrorist outfit" and a political organisation !!!!..... in any case RSS is not a political organisation and has never taken part in an election !!!!! hope this helps in your better understanding of polatical system in India.

Any time you need lessons on democracy , you can count on your neighbours for some lesssons !!!!!

That's really fair analysis. Good one.

Right on the money. And to keep this system going for decades is an achievement. Many countries (including Pakistan) can have elections like you describe, but then after x number of years, the system breaks down.

However the rules of this system are different for each society / nation / country.

Read below for more info.

By now you can tell this response is not to flame you or India, so read on.

We in Pakistan must learn from Indian example. And the lesson is "not to copy" this system in Pakistan at all.

One of the reasons we have had trouble with civilian government is that we tried to copy Indian model of political parties.

We forget that one of the core reasons for the Idea of Pakistan was that Indian model of 1940s was not deemed suitable for the areas under Pakistan and BDesh.

Unfortunately Islam-toting Pakistanis forgot that essential reason and started copying Indian model of political parties. And the more we failed, the more we copied Indians, and the vicious circle of political failures continues till today. I am sure you have heard about the voices in Pakistan demanding "mid term" elections.

Here is a bit more detail. Indian political system is a deformed copy of British political system. While British political system offered a smooth and "complete" change of leadership (on regular intervals), the indian version is based on "syasi jageers" (Political feudalism), where one family or one small group runs a party like an old Indian prince. Where sons and daughters automatically qualify to get the top position.

In India it worked for many reasons (too numerous to list all of them). One reason is perhaps that a huge number of Indian people were used to living under subdued conditions of princely states. Secondly India is so vast, that no regional ethnic party like BDeshi Awami league, or MQM or ANP could claim a large enough chunk of the country.

Thus the geography and social conditions of India forced the jagiree parties to survive, and if necessary they formed coalitions.

In Pakistan, geography dictated a system totally different from Indian system. For example East Pakistan should have been given (from day 1) major autonomy in a federal system and under "truly" national parties.

What we got instead was an ethnic party with dimwit leadership who had almost 0% presence in the West Pakistan. Thus the true democracy was absent from this system from the very foundation of this malformed Indian-style political party.

And the result was a horrible separation of the country and loss of so many precious soldiers and civilians.

Post 1970s, PPP and ZAB were as much vicious as Indira when it came to using jagiri party to run the country. Again it was only possible because of Pakistan's geography. Were India of the same size as Pakistan, there would have been a major upheaval if not military rule during or after Indira's emergency government.

A stable and a bit longer term party coalition forming in Pakistan has been a recent phenomenon and even that has been due to "HUGE pressure" from the army. Otherwise ANP, BNP, and MQM would have chopped off chunks (like Awami league) and gone their separate ways.

BTW India too has seen the ill effects of a pathetic political system in Punjab and Kashmir.

Anyways, our intellectuals must come out of the copy-Indian-political-system mode, and Pakistan too will have a good civilian system that changes peacefully and without army's intervention.

So u get in fumes when i pointed finger at you, and u started with basic defination of democracy.. u want to elect whom you want to elect, and when the same right is excersized by someone else.. you have pain in rear.. why is the double standards..

Good points ... but i would like to specifically comment on two issues here ....

First in 70's India and Pakistan were similar politically in a way ... however what happened to the leadership is what primarily differentiates the two nations .... Indira was forced out of office after emergency .... she could not hold on to power inspite of using all the force. While as in Pakistan the military stepped in ...... size is of no issue here ....

Again in Punjab and Kashmir , the situation was tackled in the end politically .... that is the reason they are still part of India. If the leadership had only tackled it militarily you would have seen a different outcome.

The point i want to raise is that in a democracy you can have different forces working to pull a county in different directions , but as along as people are a party to it .... things will find a natural balance (the way BJP was voted out of power). The army in Pakistan has unfortunately put the onus of protecting Pakistan "politically" on itself ... it wants to be the judge and jury but it is not geared up for that ...infact no army is. So till such time army has "interest" in "protecting" Pakistan politically these issues will be there.

If Pakistan had copied India (or better still stayed with India), it would have been better off :wink:

However, the basis for creation of Pak was to be against everything Indian. 60+ years later its not very difficult to figure out which system was successful and which was not.

Absolutely you have a right to elect whoseover you want to elect ... so if you elect people who belive in terrorising other nations ..... then you as a nations are making a statement that you condone such acts !!!!!!

Do you agree so far with this?

Re: LeT talk about democracy

^If you've ever watched LeT & JuD rallies and public meetings, you can easily understand the level of public support that they have.

Oh well. This is a circular argument. Isn't it?

Read the quoted text again. "Princely Party system" of India was at the core of Indian divisions. Some of these divisions lead to separation while the others have been brutally crushed.

And anyone claiming to be a Punjabee should know it better than other Indians.

.....

That's not true. Why would Muslim league agree to Mission plan and stay in an Indian union if it was as per your statement "against every thing Indian"?

Well that's the name of human struggle. Isn't it.

60 + years for nation are nothing in the long run.

USA with its excellent system, constitution etc. was struggling for its very existence in 1860s almost 90 years of its existence. One of the best known democrat Abraham Lincoln used military on his own people and the result was horrible deaths of 650,000 young Americans.

Things like this should not happen, but who can control the complex events of nations and this world.

So Indians should consider themselves lucky and not boast around. One should be humble (and most Indians are -- in person) with those who are less fortunate.

The only division which has fructified is India & Pakistan and that was done for religious reasons (India is for Hindus, we need a separet country for Muslims etc.). I am not sure how "Princely Party System" was responsible for that. Infact "Princely Part System" came into effect after partition.

Not sure what you are talking about. The Muslim League was created in the early 1900s "to be separate" from the more secular congress and as early as 1930 the demand for a separate state was made.

I am talking about the last 60 years, and a big reason for why the two countries have "developed" so differently are the vastly different political systems.

I honestly hope that you are right and Pakistan gets back on the road to development. However, the signs do not look encouraging to me from the outside.