LeT talk about democracy

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Thank you for the kind sentiments. Surely these are sincere (and not issued in a patronizing way).

Let's address now the rest of your post and point out glaring lack of knowledge that perhaps has taken a typical Indian into a myopic view of their next door neighbor.

It is astonishing to see the lack of knowledge about 1946 mission plan when you said

in response to

I realize that Indian and Pakistani high school text books are biased. But you have already graduated from High school? Right?

Time to do independent analysis bro!

The same lack of knowledge about Indian history shows up again when you say:

Here it is evident that you have not studied and compared economic systems of Asian tigers when you say:

FYI, China is a dictatorship and still it has "developed" vastly superior to India's democracy. This and many other examples clearly show that "political party systems" do not play a dominating role in the development. There are many more important factors. Just study some and we can open a new thread on that.

Thank you.

22

You are right. My statement was intended to be sincere vs. patronizing & sarcastic.

So are you disputing my claim that Muslim League had its mind set on separating from "Hindu" India as far back as early 1900s ?? Or that Iqbal did not make a speech in 1930 (or was it 1935) demanding a separate Muslim country ??

As for your other point, I totally agree with your comparison regarding Indian and Chinese economies. Big reason for that is ease and speed of decision making in China since only one person/party has to make the decision. Compare that to a multi-party democracy like India where there are various people pulling the government in different directions.

But on the other hand USA, UK, Singapore, Germany, Israel, Japan are all democracies with political parties and despite that they have grown.

However, here we are comparing India with Pakistan since both had a shared past and both started out being democracies.

23

Great. Thanks again. Same to you and India.

I don't have to dispute, the whole true history disputes this reasoning. Only the government approved high school text books in India and Pakistan spread the falsehoods oft repeated by both Indians and Pakistanis.

ML was formed by leaders who were not being allowed in the INC. The reason was simple. Soon after INC was formed by a Gora, it was immediately taken over by the lobbyists of textile mills. First Tilak and then MKG spent entire campaigns based political favors as a payback for the lobbying money pouring in from Ahmdabad, Calcutta, and Lahore's Hindu business elite.

ML and many smaller parties with names like Unionists, or Agriculturists were formed by the land owning gentry.

Thus the economics (as always the case) played much bigger role than religion.

Since you are in the USA, let me give you the examples closer to your adopted home.

Democrats run on the money from unions (generally speaking) and leftist groups.
Republicans run on the money from big corporations and farm owners.

Thus the Democrats want more government control, while republicans emphasize on benefiting the corporations.

Similarly ML was a club of big Nawwabs, and INC was guess what representing Textile-Inc. They were in it to safeguard the interests of big farms and big industry respectively.

However the masses in India won't move on these two high level concepts, so Tilak on the advice of textile-Inc started using Hindu dharma and Hindu symbols to rally the masses.

Then you accuse Iqbal for his speech in Allahbad. Did you ever read it? Did you ever care about Iqbal's followup speeches and letters to really understand what he was talking about?

That poor guy Iqbal was the biggest champion of everything Indian. His letters are on record saying he never wanted to divide India.

That is why, up until 1946, ML was asking for "constitutional package" instead of separate country.

Off course you will not hear this from Indian nationalists, nor from the Pakistani Islamists.

Just remember one thing.

Every major Mullah worth more than a dime was member of Indian National Congress. So how could Jinnah the secular guy ever use Islam for his slogan?

p.s. I can go on. But that will be a separate thread.

24

This is an interesting theory, but cannot be historically substantiated. I am sure you will say the History books in India & Pak have been tailored to give a different message but unfortunately in the absence of anything else thats all one has to rely upon.

And btw, here is a quote from Iqbal’s 1930 speech -

"I would like to see the *Punjab](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_(British_India)), North-West Frontier Province](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North-West_Frontier_Province), Sind](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sind_province_(1936-1955)) and Baluchistan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baluchistan_(Chief_Commissioners_Province)) amalgamated into a single state. Self-government within the *British Empire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire), or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated Northwest Indian Muslim state appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims, at least of Northwest India."

Timepass - November 2012
25

Yes the quote is ALMOST true with two exceptions.

You quote the word “state”, while Iqbal used the word “province”.

And the context of provinces back in 1930 like today was a unit within a country and not a country by itself.

Secondly check out the compilation of Iqbal’s letters by Aligarh university. He wrote one specific letter after Allahbad to his friend in London. In that letter he clearly denied asking for separate country.

Thirdly, he wrote the true national anthem of India “Hindustan hamara”. How can then he would cutting up his Gulistan.

So now I have provided you documentary evidence to prove that Iqbal didn’t want to split India.

However if you want to believe in what you have told so far, then there is no way you will change your belief system.

As I said if your belief system is based on one theory, then everything else will not be accepted by you. Gupshup is not a history class so you won’t get the detailed text books here.

These are just nuggets that you take and do your own research.

It is appalling to see that otherwise smart Indians and Pakistanis, turn into mush when it comes to learning about our history. They don’t want to let go the baby blanket that was given to them by the government of India/Pakistan approved history text books.

Kids who are raised on the hate-pills will find it very hard to rid themselves of hate.

Timepass - November 2012