After reading various books, asking many learned people, pondering on it myself, I long time ago concluded the following:
Allah is the ultimate judge of actionandintentions.
Humans can not judge one’s intentions perfectly but the actions speak louder than words.
Any punishment prescribed in Islamic Laws is based on what people do, that is, their actions and has to be carried by only in a place where Rule of Allah is established and only the Rulers are eligible to do so. Not just any single person is allowed to take it in his own hands.
When we say Allah is the final judge, we are actually testifying that the day of judgement is a fact. The absolute justice is Not possible in this world, but Allah has prescirbed the punishments for crimes and acts in this world as well and on day of judgment, He will either judge those crimes and acts absolutely or forgive the individual. It’s upto Him since He is the final judge.
When I found absolute justice is impossible, it really needed an example to see why is that so? So I ponder and thought of a serial killer. One who kills several people can only be killed once as a worldy punishment? That’s not absolute. There has to be a place where ultimate justice is served and that common sense tells us is the day of judgement and ALLAH is the final judge in that sense.
So I conclude, any crime is subject to punishment in this world as well. It may not be absolute but commanded by ALLAH as part of the punishment which will be finally judged by ALLAH. Actions ought to be brought to justice. Forgiveness or punishment is in the hand of a judge. A crminal can be forgiven in this world based on circumstances as well. Absolutely fine.
That is what I have concluded. Any more inputs are quite welcome.
an ideal Muslim govenrment is not only responsible for thier own country but around the world if any injustice they see.
Tariq Bin Ziaad rings a bell ? he freed humans in Spain and established Muslim empire.
Muslims today have lost thier values and forgotten thier teachings and Muslim history. they themselve need help now.
The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, than they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?
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*Originally posted by Ulti Khopri: *
Muslim history is full to make us proud my dear :)
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Unfortunately, history seems to be the only thing that is making us proud these days... but never mind, thats besides the point.
I think this is an interesting discussion. There is a whole subject of Islamic jurisprudence that is devoted to punishments for various offences... and these are punishments for this world.
However, the critical point is that a true and valid Islamic government needs to be in place to award all these punishments. If we allow individuals to carry out vigilante strikes that will cause anarchy. Since, arguably muslims don't have a truly Islamic government governing based on Islamic law, so we are already on dicey grounds. Most laws in Islamic countries are a hodge podge of British legacy and or specific sect-based interpretation of Islamic law.
But even if we get past this one issue, the point raised above that "an ideal Muslim govenrment is not only responsible for thier own country but around the world if any injustice they see" won't be practical with the present political and military strength of muslims around the world. We should first look inward to sort our problems and develop into a world-class nation and then look outward to protect the rights of the world community.
Having said all that, I think the basic premise of the first post stands. We can't wash off all criminals (assuming they are criminals) by saying "Let Allah be the final judge", cz that concept will result in huge increase in crime rates. However, the main discussion would be who should decide if someone is indeed a criminal, and should Islamic jurisprudence be applied to population that is clearly not the best of muslims, especially when it is not clearly black and white (I am not talking with reference to the other discussion/poll going on) but about any crime in general.
i simply believe that religion has a lot of grey area
topics that are pretty clear and concise can be dealth by using the worldly law but the grey area should be left to Allah be the judge of ie hijab, sexuality etc
but then again, we have a lot of people here who find it their obligation to disect these topics and judge for themselves
but then again, we have a lot of people here who find it their obligation to disect these topics and judge for themselves
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that's because ALLAH already judged them in QURAN and those who 'disect' such things are merely describing Allah's judgement right from Quran or based on ahaadeeth.
285 The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His apostles. “We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles.” **And they say: “We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys.” **
[Surah Al Baqarah :2 ]
Rasoolulah :saw: said:
"There will be a man with full stomach, reclining on his pillow, who will hear a command from me and say, ‘Let the judge between us (in this matter) be Allah’s Book: we obey whatever we find in it.’ [Know that] indeed, I have been given the Book and, with it, that which is similar to it (the Sunnah).’
just cus i dont believe they should be killed for their punishment, doesnt mean i dont believe in Allah, His rasool and the Holy Book
i work for agay manager, and in my 4 years being here, hes treated me with respect and i give him the same in return.. do u think tomorrow i should come in with a gun and shoot him or maybe hand him to the mullahs?
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*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
just cus i dont believe they should be killed for their punishment, doesnt mean i dont believe in Allah, His rasool and the Holy Book
i work for a gay manager, and in my 4 years being here, he treats me with respect and i give him the same in return.. do u think tomorrow i should come in with a gun and shoot him or maybe hand him to the mullahs?
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let keep that aside since we are talking about it in general. Shall we:)
The point of reference is the above quoted ayah.
What can be the best interpretation of:
"We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey"
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Rasoolulah said:"There will be a man with full stomach, reclining on his pillow, who will hear a command from me and say, 'Let the judge between us (in this matter) be Allah's Book: we obey whatever we find in it.' [Know that] indeed, I have been given the Book and, with it, that which is similar to it (the Sunnah).
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A beautiful HADITH EXPSOING THE REALITY OF MUNKAREEN HADITH
A beautiful HADITH EXPSOING THE REALITY OF MUNKAREEN HADITH
way to go bro anwaar
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Although we are taught the Copernican astronomy in our textbooks, it has not yet penetrated to our religion or our morals, and has not even succeeded in destroying belief in astrology. People still think that the Divine Plan has special reference to human beings, and that a special Providence not only looks after the good, but also punishes the wicked. I am sometimes shocked by the blasphemies of those who think themselves pious-for instance, the nuns who never take a bath without wearing a bathrobe all the time. When asked why, since no man can see them, they reply: 'Oh, but you forget the good God.' Apparently they conceive of the Deity as a Peeping Tom, whose omnipotence enables Him to see through bathroom walls, but who is foiled by bathrobes. This view strikes me as curious.
