The question is that which is very simple in nature, and thus requires a simple answer. No political sloganism, no jargon, no philosophical overview and dissection of the remarks.
Can a Government claim, and maintain legitimacy if the public which the government is representative of, shows that it is no longer content with the Government? Fanboy’ism aside, it lends credence to the fact that people from most Metropolitans where Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf has held rallies, have turned out in massive numbers. These are the same cities that current governmental political party claims having being elected by. So what changed? Why are people coming on the streets if they’re happy with the governance?
In my personal opinion, in a society where the elected leader feels that public stands with him/her, he/she would make the public his/her courtroom to decide for or against. Why is that standard of transparency not present in Islamic Republic of Pakistan whenever it has been ruled by other political parties who have had ample time and room to establish their roots?
Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf may have approached their demands in a manner that lacks in preference for many, but what we’re witnessing is that public is starting to look past that and still supports Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf in its’ call for transparency. At this critical time with floods, displaced people, and massive anti-government rallies going on, Mr. Prime Minister should have opted to stay in Pakistan and work through late nights to resolve the crises that face the nation. It’s a terrible shame that people come on the streets to display their support for opposition parties, and to display their frustration at a system that is set up to play political musical chairs with empty slogans, and little substance to fulfill the promises. And while all of this is taking place, the top political and governing authority of the nation goes to have a chat with other world leaders about matters which should be secondary considering the amount of in-house priorities at the moment.
Where do you think the government gets its’ legitimacy in prevailing circumstances, if there is a repeated show of the number of people that are turning up at Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf rallies? While people predict doomsday for Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf on the account of its’ tactics in Islamabad, the political party seems to carry that same momentum in other cities, which leaves a bystander wondering what the public is really thinking. Or perhaps Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf has phenomenal people gatherers who deliver everytime, and carry unaccountable depots of wealth to lure people out.
As always, do not troll. Speak strictly on topic, or abstain from sharing criticism just for the sake of criticism.
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
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Can a Government claim, and maintain legitimacy if the public which the government is representative of, shows that it is no longer content with the Government?
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Legitimacy of a government is measured using electoral process (votes) & just b/c losing candidates can bring their supporters to streets does not mean govts legitimacy comes into question. If that was the case than no govt would ever survive beyond few months.
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
Legitimacy of a government is measured using electoral process (votes)
In order for a government to be legitimate, the electoral process has to be legitimate. It is the legitimacy of the electoral process that is in question here.
Even in a nascent democracy like Afghanistan, they conducted an audit and delayed results by several months just because there were allegations of rigging. Same happens in any true democracy. The only place it doesnt happen is in monarchies.
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
Legitimacy of a government is measured using electoral process (votes) & just b/c losing candidates can bring their supporters to streets does not mean govts legitimacy comes into question. If that was the case than no govt would ever survive beyond few months.
And if the electoral is suspected to be faulty, and there exist even a hint of rigging? Then where do we go from there...doesn't it then come back to the original claim of legitimacy because the entire house of cards is built on the premise that mandate was secured in the most fair means. A lot of people do not believe the mandate was secured in the absolute fair means, even the electoral authority admits that there may have been lapses.
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
In order for a government to be legitimate, the electoral process has to be legitimate. It is the legitimacy of the electoral process that is in question here.
If the process is in question how come PTI remember that after 1.5 years? How come KPK govt legitimate that came out same alleged fraud process?
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Even in a nascent democracy like Afghanistan, they conducted an audit and delayed results by several months just because there were allegations of rigging. Same happens in any true democracy. The only place it doesnt happen is in monarchies.
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You probably don't know what happened in Afghanistan. The power sharing deal was made under the US pressure to prevent country from going back into civil war. It had nothing to do with who won election...or the results of vote audit.
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
And if the electoral is suspected to be faulty, and there exist even a hint of rigging? Then where do we go from there...doesn't it then come back to the original claim of legitimacy because the entire house of cards is built on the premise that mandate was secured in the most fair means. A lot of people do not believe the mandate was secured in the absolute fair means, even the electoral authority admits that there may have been lapses.
Forums for answering those questions are ECOP & courts. And you can never have 100% free and fair systems as long as its run by imperfect human beings.
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
Pakistan Election
Koi dhandli kar hi naheen sakta baray paimanay par
Ballot paper fauj ki nigrani main chhapay
Agencian siraf Election , marches waghaira ko control karti hain
Kia majal kisi civilian ki
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
If the process is in question how come PTI remember that after 1.5 years? How come KPK govt legitimate that came out same alleged fraud process?
You probably don't know what happened in Afghanistan. The power sharing deal was made under the US pressure to prevent country from going back into civil war. It had nothing to do with who won election...or the results of vote audit.
If you see the past 16 months, this was exactly what Imran khans demands were. He was asking to reopen only four constituencies to find out the issues so that they could be rectified. He knocked all avenues he could, when nothing worked he had to go for this. While we may disagree with the way he has gone about this but this is what most people want. All political parties have agreed that the elections were rigged, but what will be done to rectify the system?
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
In a country like Pakistan , you can never expect better management , The most visible thing in elections was mismanagement . There is a great problem with Imran Khan & PTI , The don't represent poor & paindu class even today so they can never get a majority .
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
If you see the past 16 months, this was exactly what Imran khans demands were. He was asking to reopen only four constituencies to find out the issues so that they could be rectified. He knocked all avenues he could, when nothing worked he had to go for this. While we may disagree with the way he has gone about this but this is what most people want. All political parties have agreed that the elections were rigged, but what will be done to rectify the system?
Actually that is not true b/c if you go back & look at what IK did after election he in fact accepted results of the elections. He said that on floor of the Parliament & congratulated NS & promised to be constructive opposition leader. Btw, everything that you see now started after March/April of this year & London meetings where Ahmed Shuja Pasha put this plane in action to destabilize NS govt.
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
Actually that is not true b/c if you go back & look at what IK did after election he in fact accepted results of the elections. He said that on floor of the Parliament & congratulated NS & promised to be constructive opposition leader. Btw, everything that you see now started after March/April of this year & London meetings where Ahmed Shuja Pasha put this plane in action to destabilize NS govt.
if you see his speeches from last ear he had clearly said that he would launch tsunami march if rigging allegations were not looked after. During this time Pti published a white paper on rigging and there have been several jalsas and press conferences. The government didn't take anything seriously. What clout has pasha got now in the army after retirement?
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
So according to this Logic, Govt should bring out its supporters on the road chanting for government to stay and in that case who is there to measure the number of people on both sides.
Just because IK say so, it doesn't make elections fake or fraud or doesnt prove massive rigging, and if a statement of political leader is to take as the criteria and that is Like of IK who is blunt liar and known for his hype... then no election can be taken as fair one...
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
if you see his speeches from last ear he had clearly said that he would launch tsunami march if rigging allegations were not looked after. During this time Pti published a white paper on rigging and there have been several jalsas and press conferences. The government didn't take anything seriously. What clout has pasha got now in the army after retirement?
This march was predicted by Hamid Mir way back in 2013 when IK had nothing else on his plate and his was busy in Dharnas against NATO supply... so this march is not because he want election process to be improved or he want rigging to be analyzed, this march is there for some thing else, something he may not be part of ( if is he is stupid enough)...
His March so far has gained nothing but have caused country alot, and there are more losses to come and that because numb nut have told IK that if this govt goes then he can win elections... this carrot is enough for him to cause any damage to the country...
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
....Can a Government claim, and maintain legitimacy if the public which the government is representative of, shows that it is no longer content with the Government? Fanboy'ism aside, it lends credence to the fact that people from most Metropolitans where Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf has held rallies, have turned out in massive numbers. These are the same cities that current governmental political party claims having being elected by. So what changed? Why are people coming on the streets if they're happy with the governance? ...
I would agree with you that people are unhappy. It should be a major concern for the government since now people have access to a lot more of information and a lot faster than they used to. The governments can no longer simply pull newspaper advertisements from dissenting newspapers to shut them up. People are getting fed up and should not be 'taking' what is dished out to them. Unfortunately, the alternatives to the current 'system' are even worse.
The protests should have an agenda though. WHAT exactly people are not happy about. That should be clear and the protests can continue if the grievances are not addressed. If the allegations are grave and proven, then people have a right to demonstrate for removal of officials concerned and investigation into the matter. The protests which threaten the legitimacy of government should be much much larger than what we have witnessed so far in Khan campaign.
If it relates simply to performance and bad governance, then people would vote them out in next elections. The process should continue until we have relatively politics-free judiciary, police and accountability.
He said he accepted the results, but not rigging. I don’t think he ever said that he wont talk about rigging ever again. You can say that he made the mistake of trusting Nawaz Sharif and hoping would allow anti rigging investigation to take place.
The ex NADRA chief was illegally ousted - in the middle of the night for saying he can do thumb verification of votes - when Imran wasn’t belligerently pushing for his case. It is the illegal ousting of NADRA chief that truly vindicated his stance, and heightened the tensions.
PS: The ECP report on elections irregularities was produced in December 2013, why did it not come straight away? Why the nine month delay?
PS2: Answer the simple question: why Nawaz Sharif didn’t call off his bluff by opening up those four constituencies?
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
If the process is in question how come PTI remember that after 1.5 years? How come KPK govt legitimate that came out same alleged fraud process?
You probably don't know what happened in Afghanistan. The power sharing deal was made under the US pressure to prevent country from going back into civil war. It had nothing to do with who won election...or the results of vote audit.
PTI remembered it from day 1. Do you forget for how long PTI has been asking for an audit? They went to all the avenues possible. This argument is as stale as Maulana Fazlur rehman.
As for KPK govt, PTI has offered open audit to anyone who raises an objection. Fact is, noone has raised an objection, despite their blah blah on the sidelines.
As for Afghanistan, I dont care about the subsequent power sharing deal. Im talking about the elections, and post election process. Elections were held. They were close. Rigging was alleged. And audit was called for and conducted. Im talking about the due process here, not about what control US exercises over Afghanistan.
Re: Legitimacy to represent against the backdrop of Public Disapproval!
Problem for PTI supporters is that they have video cameras now & everything gets recorded. This is IK’s 1st speech in the new Parliament (from 2013). Watch it for your pleasure & let us know what you think.
You still haven’t the answered the simple questions.
How about you also post videos where he is talking about rigging on the parliament? What kind of logic is that, just because Imran didn’t talk about rigging in his first speech, it should’ve been assumed that he was never going to talk about it. It makes no sense whatsoever.
And yes since it was his first speech in the parliament, it was designed to be less contencious, like most most first parliamentary speeches are. Are we going to nit pick those first words and forget about the intense campaigning that immediately followed?