Legacy of Zia ul Haq

[arshad5]

People seem to judge Zia based on the spillover effects of the Afghanistan war. Afghanistan war not of a Zia’s making but he found himself in the situation and being a patriot did the best for his country at the time, when it faced an existential threat.

Zia took over from anarchy. He brought stability to Pakistan. It had respect in the world. The institutions of Pakistan were functioning properly. There was less corruption. The country had lower debts. People were relatively better off than now. Pakistans military was more formidable.

[Mostar95]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

There was hardly any anarchy in Pakistan on July 5, 1977. The so called PNA's Islamic Movement had already died in May 1977 and that was too limited to some big cities. PNA ran a movement based on false allegations and with funny slogans to fool the people and soon they dispersed by the end of 1977.

[ehsan]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

People seem to judge Zia based on the spillover effects of the Afghanistan war. Afghanistan war not of a Zia's making but he found himself in the situation and being a patriot did the best for his country at the time, when it faced an existential threat.

Zia took over from anarchy. He brought stability to Pakistan. It had respect in the world. The institutions of Pakistan were functioning properly. There was less corruption. The country had lower debts. People were relatively better off than now. Pakistans military was more formidable.

he divided the country based on his hatred for PPP. brought in the drug culture, the madrassas for which we are still paying. Destroyed the country economically, murdered an elected prime minister, created MQM. Just some achievements of his misrule, The worst thing to happen to Pak since its creation. Anyway dont want to derail the thread by discussion about a nincompoop.

[arshad5]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

PNA did not just consist of Islamic parties but it consisted of securalists, socialists. It was a National Alliance consisting of all segments of society.

Bhutto tried to use paramilitary forces to crush the alliance. Although an agreement had been made with some elements of the alliance (to be seen how long it would have lasted)others were still targeted by force, and the sitaution was getting worse rather than better.

[arshad5]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

@ehsan

he divided the country based on his hatred for PPP. brought in the drug culture, the madrassas for which we are still paying. Destroyed the country economically, murdered an elected prime minister, created MQM. Just some achievements of his misrule, The worst thing to happen to Pak since its creation. Anyway dont want to derail the thread by discussion about a nincompoop.

PPP became a terrorist organisation. Drugs came from Afghanistan. Madrassas were sponsored by the americans and saudis. Bhutto was hanged because he had murdered people. Bhutto destroyed Pakistan economically due to nationalisation.

[ehsan]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

PPP became a terrorist organisation. Drugs came from Afghanistan. Madrassas were sponsored by the americans and saudis. Bhutto was hanged because he had murdered people. Bhutto destroyed Pakistan economically due to nationalisation.

Who allowed the Afghanis in, who in turn brought the drugs, madrassas might have been sponsored by the Saudis and the Amreicans but who allowed them to be established in the country, who allowed the American to dictate a coup and than hang an elected PM by manipulating the judiucary. PPP did a lot of thing wrong under Bhutto and one of them was appointing a brainless guy like Zia as COAS but no one has damaged Pakistan more than this moron. If you wish to discuss the darkest period of Pak under the brainless moron open a new thread.

[hanibal]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

@ehsan

he divided the country based on his hatred for PPP. brought in the drug culture, the madrassas for which we are still paying. Destroyed the country economically, murdered an elected prime minister, created MQM. Just some achievements of his misrule, The worst thing to happen to Pak since its creation. Anyway dont want to derail the thread by discussion about a nincompoop.

What are you talking About Pakistan progressed unprecendtally under Mard-e-Momin we call Zia ul Haq. His major achievements are as follows:

1) Successfully divided Pakistan into, Shia-Sunni and founded Sipha-e-Sahaba!!! hence lay the foundation for the concept of attacking on the mosques of different cult.

2) With great planning and hard work he literally turned Karachi into Beirut, I have not seen it by i was told that Karachi prior to Zia was an international city where one can found peace, harmony and opportunities to grow, special thank to Zia for getting rid of all three... today's Karachi is what Zia wanted it to be...

3) His other major achievement includes introduction of Heroine culture in Pakistan, the doors of the country was opened this great drugs of all time, although not entirely produced in Pakistan, but has been synonym to the name of Pakistan, any person got caught on any airport in the world for trying to trade in (idiots call it smuggling) this drug is likely to be a Pakistani or traveling from Pakistan...

4) He introduced the AK-47 Culture, ab koy panga tu lay ker dikhaye!!! earlier we use fight and break each other jaws!!! Allah Allah khair Sallah, but now we just prefer to shoot him down... thanks Zia!

5) Afghanies!!! yeah a whole lot of them, Although Iran also got few but was contained in the certain area and were sent back after the Russian occupation was over, but we still have got them, during Zia, they were of the status of Guest, they can do whatever they want, go where ever they want, the major problem of Karachi and Quetta is because of these Afghans!!!

6) The Economy, flood gates were open, Americans were giving Dollars to Pakistan like anything, and he instead of wasting it on the projects like of Kala bagh or other infra-structure, kept it safe for some reason beyond all of the Pakistani people!!!

Above are few of his achievements, now if you still do not thank Allah for having somebody like Zia as your president, then only Allah may help you!

[Captain1]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

Pakistan today is paying for the crimes of Ziaul Haq as well as Zulfiqar Ali Zardari, oops I mean Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.

[arshad5]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

I didn't want to derail the thread but since others are still commenting on Zia, I think I should try to clear a few misconceptions. I am not a Zia supporter but I am trying to be fair to him. A million people attended his funeral in Islamabad which is probably higher than any other Pakistani figure, but since then he has been blamed for all the ills of the society by PPP.

What are you talking About Pakistan progressed unprecendtally under Mard-e-Momin we call Zia ul Haq. His major achievements are as follows:

1) Successfully divided Pakistan into, Shia-Sunni and founded Sipha-e-Sahaba!!! hence lay the foundation for the concept of attacking on the mosques of different cult. *Do you have any proof that Zia founded Sipha e Sahaba? Just for one moment rationally think why would Zia start such a group. I don't believe he did. I would say that ZAB and family being Shias and supported by Iran and the Iranian Revolution would make more of a rational sense to me. During the Afghanistan war a lot of states were involved in creating problems here but I believe that things were fairly under control during his term and only after his death did things get out of hand i.e during the rules of BB and NS. * 2) With great planning and hard work he literally turned Karachi into Beirut, I have not seen it by i was told that Karachi prior to Zia was an international city where one can found peace, harmony and opportunities to grow, special thank to Zia for getting rid of all three... today's Karachi is what Zia wanted it to be... *Zia may have encouraged the MQM to give the Muhajirs more rights but MQM only became a monster during BB and NS terms. MQM was insignificant during Zia's rule. During Musharraf's rule it became a national force. Even now most of the TV channels like Geo give it more publicity than it deserves. Do you still blame Zia for its increasing influence today? *

3) His other major achievement includes introduction of Heroine culture in Pakistan, the doors of the country was opened this great drugs of all time, although not entirely produced in Pakistan, but has been synonym to the name of Pakistan, any person got caught on any airport in the world for trying to trade in (idiots call it smuggling) this drug is likely to be a Pakistani or traveling from Pakistan... *The doors of this country were opened in order to safeguard Pakistan from becoming encircled by India and its ally the Soviet Union. The very existence of Pakistan was under threat. You cannot blame Zia for drugs as every other week I am reading about drugs being found at the airport or in planes or on flight crews. Do you blame Zardari for drug smuggling now? * 4) He introduced the AK-47 Culture, ab koy panga tu lay ker dikhaye!!! earlier we use fight and break each other jaws!!! Allah Allah khair Sallah, but now we just prefer to shoot him down... thanks Zia! *Under PPP thousands of licenses if not more are being doled out to their supporters in Khi. It is the job of the state to regulate and license dangerous weapons. All ills on society...just blame them on Zia without any rhym or reason. * 5) Afghanies!!! yeah a whole lot of them, Although Iran also got few but was contained in the certain area and were sent back after the Russian occupation was over, but we still have got them, during Zia, they were of the status of Guest, they can do whatever they want, go where ever they want, the major problem of Karachi and Quetta is because of these Afghans!!! *Pakistan had an obligation to house refugees. Most of Afghanistan is pashtun so it is obvious most of them unless they are Shias from northern Afghanistan would chose to come to Pakistan. They have being living in this country for 30 odd years now and are not refugees anymore they are Pakistanis. The make a valuable contribution to Pakistan. * 6) The Economy, flood gates were open, Americans were giving Dollars to Pakistan like anything, and he instead of wasting it on the projects like of Kala bagh or other infra-structure, kept it safe for some reason beyond all of the Pakistani people!!! *Do you know how much money Pakistan got after Zia? The countrys total debt doubled or trembled in the space of a decade and what did you get? nothing except the start on M2 motorway. * Above are few of his achievements, now if you still do not thank Allah for having somebody like Zia as your president, then only Allah may help you!

[hanibal]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

@arshad5

*Do you have any proof that Zia founded Sipha e Sahaba? Just for one moment rationally think why would Zia start such a group. I don't believe he did. I would say that ZAB and family being Shias and supported by Iran and the Iranian Revolution would make more of a rational sense to me. During the Afghanistan war a lot of states were involved in creating problems here but I believe that things were fairly under control during his term and only after his death did things get out of hand i.e during the rules of BB and NS. *

Not only Sipah-e-Sahaba but MQM as well, both have thing to sell, one was selling hatred against Shias and other was selling hatred against non-urdu speakers, was it not Zia in power when SSP was founded and when all that hatred stuff started in Quetta, Southern Punjab... didn't he let them grew!!! and later many of our friends, brothers and kids paid the price for praying in the mosque.. Things seems to be under control as they were during Ayoub era, the term used for such under control thing is called Gutter Politics... where you put cover on the mess and let it rot until it smells like hell, yeah the thing we saw in 90s was the same smell, good god, thing under some control when many of such maniacs where either killed or jailed by the then govts... Riaz Basra might be martyr to you but to me and many he is some coward (now dead) a-hole who likes to kill people while they are unarmed and praying...

@arshad5

The doors of this country were opened in order to safeguard Pakistan from becoming encircled by India and its ally the Soviet Union. The very existence of Pakistan was under threat. You cannot blame Zia for drugs as every other week I am reading about drugs being found at the airport or in planes or on flight crews. Do you blame Zardari for drug smuggling now?

What safe-guard, you had them that is okay, got no problem with it, letting them penetrate in the country and try to turn Pakistan into Afghanistan is not acceptable, look how Iran treated Afghan refugees and later sent them back, what are we doing with them still??? find strategic depth??? our story of giving refuge to Afghan is, we ate hundred onions and also were slapped hundred times... because now they same Afghan for whom we fought thinks we are bad people!!! yeah some safe-guard i must say!!!

ZArdari or mushy, look who started the drug war!!! now we are reaping what Zia sow !!! had the afghan thing been dealt in better ways, he might have not got this name in the whole world, where they know Pakistanies for drug paddling!!!

You talk about India encircling, what is happening now, there ain't any Pakistan friendly govt in Afghanistan, Americans hate Pakistani more than Russians did!!! so now what should you recommend??? we are in the same situation aren't we???

@arshad5

Under PPP thousands of licenses if not more are being doled out to their supporters in Khi. It is the job of the state to regulate and license dangerous weapons. All ills on society...just blame them on Zia without any rhym or reason.

Is that the best thing you can come up with????

if yes, that still doesn't change that it was originally Zia who started all this!!!

@arshad5

Pakistan had an obligation to house refugees. Most of Afghanistan is pashtun so it is obvious most of them unless they are Shias from northern Afghanistan would chose to come to Pakistan. They have being living in this country for 30 odd years now and are not refugees anymore they are Pakistanis. The make a valuable contribution to Pakistan.

House refugees no problem with that, but then send them back will ya???

@arshad5

**Do you know how much money Pakistan got after Zia? The countrys total debt doubled or trembled in the space of a decade and what did you get? nothing except the start on M2 motorway.

so no talks on the money received by Zia, straight away to the money received by the civil govts, can you tell me one single infrastructure project of Zia era which can compete M2? take ur time.. i know it is going to take hell of search to find something which do not exist, and yes, getting wrote FATEH by Haroon Rasheed is not like making of M2
**

[arshad5]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

.

@hanibal

Not only Sipah-e-Sahaba but MQM as well, both have thing to sell, one was selling hatred against Shias and other was selling hatred against non-urdu speakers, was it not Zia in power when SSP was founded and when all that hatred stuff started in Quetta, Southern Punjab... didn't he let them grew!!! and later many of our friends, brothers and kids paid the price for praying in the mosque.. Things seems to be under control as they were during Ayoub era, the term used for such under control thing is called Gutter Politics... where you put cover on the mess and let it rot until it smells like hell, yeah the thing we saw in 90s was the same smell, good god, thing under some control when many of such maniacs where either killed or jailed by the then govts... Riaz Basra might be martyr to you but to me and many he is some coward (now dead) a-hole who likes to kill people while they are unarmed and praying...

*Sipah e Sahaba was formed in the 1980's as a response to the export of the Iranian Revolution. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems it was a peaceful organisation till the time of Zia's death. How can you blame Zia for this group...the Saudis and the Americans also shared the goal of stopping the spread of the Iranian influence so perhaps it was sponsored by them. It is not a crime to have groups however when they commit crimes the state has a duty to take action. The same is true for MQM. If these organisations later on started indulging in crimes then you have to blame BB or NS...how can you blame Zia? *

What safe-guard, you had them that is okay, got no problem with it, letting them penetrate in the country and try to turn Pakistan into Afghanistan is not acceptable, look how Iran treated Afghan refugees and later sent them back, what are we doing with them still??? find strategic depth??? our story of giving refuge to Afghan is, we ate hundred onions and also were slapped hundred times... because now they same Afghan for whom we fought thinks we are bad people!!! yeah some safe-guard i must say!!!

Who tried to turn Pakistan into Afghanistan before 1988? The problem is Pakistans lost decade after Zias death.

ZArdari or mushy, look who started the drug war!!! now we are reaping what Zia sow !!! had the afghan thing been dealt in better ways, he might have not got this name in the whole world, where they know Pakistanies for drug paddling!!!

*Zia started the drug trade? Drug trade started because of the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan and the instability after that period. Did Zia send Pakistani soldiers to plant poppies in Afghanistan? * You talk about India encircling, what is happening now, there ain't any Pakistan friendly govt in Afghanistan, Americans hate Pakistani more than Russians did!!! so now what should you recommend??? we are in the same situation aren't we???

*Is Zia responsible for the current situation? Zia stopped the threat that Pakistan faced at the time of his rule. *

Is that the best thing you can come up with????

if yes, that still doesn't change that it was originally Zia who started all this!!!

House refugees no problem with that, but then send them back will ya???

so no talks on the money received by Zia, straight away to the money received by the civil govts, can you tell me one single infrastructure project of Zia era which can compete M2? take ur time.. i know it is going to take hell of search to find something which do not exist, and yes, getting wrote FATEH by Haroon Rasheed is not like making of M2

M2 Motorway was barely inaugurated and by then Pakistans debt had trembled by then. Zia's achievements were a strong Pakistan, respected and feared internationally. A stable Pakistan. Less corruption. He appointed an honest prime minister who drove a Pakistani built Suzuki instead of expensive imported cars. If Zia did indulge in corruption then I am sure that you would have mentioned it already. Fine universities like LUMS and NUST were set up. A lot of villages were electrified. Economic growth was good and inflation was low. **

[Ali_Syed]

Legacy of Zia ul Haq

Please discuss the legacy of zia ul haq in this thread.

[hanibal]

Re: Poor Aitezaz.... Na Khuda hi Mila na wisaal-e-Sanam

@arshad5

Sipah e Sahaba was formed in the 1980's as a response to the export of the Iranian Revolution. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems it was a peaceful organisation till the time of Zia's death. How can you blame Zia for this group...the Saudis and the Americans also shared the goal of stopping the spread of the Iranian influence so perhaps it was sponsored by them. It is not a crime to have groups however when they commit crimes the state has a duty to take action. The same is true for MQM. If these organisations later on started indulging in crimes then you have to blame BB or NS...how can you blame Zia?.

That underlined part is good enough for me! it is not a secret who was ruling Pakistan then!

@arshad5

Who tried to turn Pakistan into Afghanistan before 1988? The problem is Pakistans lost decade after Zias death..

last i knew, before 1988 it was Zia was president of Pakistan!!! and he is the one who failed to contain the militant groups later found sanctuaries in Pakistan!!! so it was matter of time!!!

@arshad5

M2 Motorway was barely inaugurated and by then Pakistans debt had trembled by then. Zia's achievements were a strong Pakistan, respected and feared internationally. A stable Pakistan. Less corruption. He appointed an honest prime minister who drove a Pakistani built Suzuki instead of expensive imported cars. If Zia did indulge in corruption then I am sure that you would have mentioned it already. Fine universities like LUMS and NUST were set up. A lot of villages were electrified. Economic growth was good and inflation was low..

What strong Pakistan?>> where the president of the country get blown up in a military plane???? where arm depot blasts the half of the capital, where Karachi the largest city of Pakistan saw riots on daily basis, remember Bohri Bazar??? where nothing substantial was done in Power Generation sector whilst receiving lots of money, where nothing done to develop Industrial sector keeping the demand of next 20 years? where nothing been done to take advantage of being the strategic partner of US ( not like today, we were blue eye boy back then) all we did was get few million dollars whereas we could have asked for trade benefits in US influenced world, where we lost Siachen Glachier to India in 1984 ( if the year i quoted is right), what the hell are you talking about??? No country can grow or become strong if it does not have sound economical foundation, sorry to say, the 10 years of Zia took us 2 decade back... i can carry on, but i guess you may get the point here...

[rangoli]

Re: Legacy of Zia ul Haq

his era was the worst period for press, anyone who dared to raise his voice against him, he was thrown in jail.
he just completly brutalised our society!

[Anwer_Pasha]

Re: Legacy of Zia ul Haq

He spoiled our army . He pushed it into the hands of CIA .

[rangoli]

Re: Legacy of Zia ul Haq

and then CIA got him killed!! and if I'm not wrong there were like 20 other people on board with him, including US ambassador to Pakistan and other US officials. that plane crash still remains a mystery!

[Anwer_Pasha]

Re: 1

@arshad5

Zia took over from anarchy. He brought stability to Pakistan. It had respect in the world. The institutions of Pakistan were functioning properly. There was less corruption. The country had lower debts. People were relatively better off than now. Pakistans military was more formidable.

He spread the anarchy . He was a puppet of CIA . He played double game in 1977.
I tell you a little but whole true example . I was living in Karachi those days .In start of movement against Bhutto there was a curfew in Karachi . I saw a … military personal fired on a man inside the mosque at Banaras . I was surprised and after decades I understood that . That was an organized way to spread hate against Bhutto .
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/533453_431121816921451_654423447_n.jpg

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Legacy of Zia ul Haq

Well my two cents on the issue:

1) Afghanistan issue: Zia's biggest blunder was to join the US bandwagon after the Russian invasion. We should have stayed neutral during the war and tried to improve our relations in the neighbourhood. He joined the jehad, set up maddrasahs and invited militants from all over the world hence made Pakistan the center of global jehad. That legacy is still haunting us. Secondly when the Afghan refugees started pouring in after the war, he should have kept them confined in their camps. No effective checks on the refugees helped them in moving to bigger cities like Peshawer, Islamabad, Karachi and Quetta which not only created cultural frictions but also spread out the heroine and klashnikov culture.

2) **Sipah e Sihaba: **After the Iranian revolution the shias in the country organized under Tehreek e Nifaaz e Fiqah Jaffaria, which was a cause of alarm for the rulers. Zia either helped create Sipah e Sihaba with finances from Saudia Arabia or turned a deaf ear as he and the intelligence agencies were busy fighting a war in Afghanistan. In any case this was a great disservice to the nation and has been a source of increasing intolerance and divisions in the country.

3) MQM: In order to counter People's Party in Sindh, a party with the name of MQM was created and the impact of that is being felt to date.

[Sachaydino]

Re: Legacy of Zia ul Haq

@rangoli

and then CIA got him killed!! and if I'm not wrong there were like 20 other people on board with him, including US ambassador to Pakistan and other US officials. that plane crash still remains a mystery!

More than 20. In Pak 1 mardood alongwith 36 .hawaris jahanum raseed howay. This collateral damage also resulted in 3 US generals and Rafael the American Ambassador to Pakistan was also killed. Most probably a device was hidden in boxes of Anwar Ratol mangoes which were loaded at Bahawalpur Airport.

[Anwer_Pasha]

Re: Legacy of Zia ul Haq

@sachaydino

More than 20. In Pak 1 mardood alongwith 36 .hawaris jahanum raseed howay. This collateral damage also resulted in 3 US generals and Rafael the American Ambassador to Pakistan was also killed. Most probably a device was hidden in boxes of Anwar Ratol mangoes which were loaded at Bahawalpur Airport.

No those were Chonsa Mangoes . And no device could be detected . Last voice recorded was "Mashhood Bhai ,Mashhood Bhai ! Kia kar raho ho" .
doesn't indicate to a blast