Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
*Amnesty's report said Israeli attacks into Lebanon were "indiscriminate and disproportionate". *
A separate report by UN investigators - the Human Rights Council - accused Israel of flagrant human rights violations during the conflict, saying the using of cluster munitions was a deliberate tactic.
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
no OG, i was asking why you called the bbc bias for being critical of israel even though it was amnesty that conducted the report?
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
Because the way that the BBC fashions it’s stories are well known, and well documented:
BBC mounts court fight to keep ‘critical’ report secret
By Chris Hastings and Beth Jones
(Filed: 15/10/2006)
The BBC has spent thousands of pounds of licence payers’ money trying to block the release of a report which is believed to be highly critical of its Middle East coverage.
The corporation is mounting a landmark High Court action to prevent the release of The Balen Report under the Freedom of Information Act, despite the fact that BBC reporters often use the Act to pursue their journalism.
The action will increase suspicions that the report, which is believed to run to 20,000 words, includes evidence of anti-Israeli bias in news programming.
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The court case will have far reaching implications for the future working of the Act and the BBC. If the corporation loses, it will have to release thousands of pages of other documents that have been held back.
Like all public bodies, the BBC is obliged to release information about itself under the Act. However, along with Channel 4, Britain’s other public service broadcaster, it is allowed to hold back material that deals with the production of its art, entertainment and journalism.
The High Court action is the latest stage of a lengthy and expensive battle by Steven Sugar, a lawyer, to get access to the document, which was compiled by Malcolm Balen, a senior editorial adviser, in 2004.
Richard Thomas, the Information Commissioner, who is responsible for the workings of the Act, agreed with the BBC that the document, which examines hundreds of hours of its radio and television broadcasts, could be held back. However, Mr Sugar appealed and, after a two-day hearing at which the BBC was represented by two barristers, the Information Tribunal found in his favour.
Mr Sugar said: “This is a serious report about a serious issue and has been compiled with public money. I lodged the request because I was concerned that the BBC’s reporting of the second intifada was seriously unbalanced against Israel, but I think there are other issues at stake now in the light of the BBC’s reaction.”
The BBC’s coverage of the Middle East has been frequently condemned for a perceived anti-Israeli bias.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/15/nbeeb15.xml
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
Actually, Syria is hardly a 'radical Muslim' government...but whatever floats your boat, mate...
In any case, it's doubtful hezb was behind this.
What is amazing though, is the sudden gasp of concern comming from America and the UK...how sick is that considering their silence as Leb. was being pounded by Israel?
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
Now, if you don't mind, before you interupted, I was marvelling at the Jews abilities to kill 144 people in Iraq today by convincing Muslims to kill one another......
Real question is how many civilians did American troops kill today all over Iraq? Probably much higher...
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
Not really:
“In conclusion, had Hizbullah fighters stored Katyushas or launched them from close proximity to civilians in the hope of deterring Israeli attacks, this would have amounted to the crime of using civilians as “human shields”. The available evidence suggests that in at least some cases Katyushas were stored within villages and fired from civilian areas, but it is not apparent that civilians were present and used as “human shields”. With almost 4,000 rockets fired on Israel and very little undisputed information about where they were actually stored and fired from, the extent of such conduct and its qualification in terms of international humanitarian law remains unclear.”
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde020332006
Now, having equipment of war in civilian areas is not a crime…depends on where the battle fronts are. This is a no-brainer.
Further, the amnesty seems to suggest that the only ‘evidence’ of Hezb. transgressions come from israel. Not a good source.
So, in the end…one wonders if hezb. acted outside of the bounds of the rule sof war on this…
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
aswell as all the murdered in lebanese politics being anti syrian, they have all been murdered a couple of days before a major UN meeting. this is israellis killing people.
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
The israelis must have got him assasinated to spark violence and civil war...
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
^ i agree. it seems the only folks to benefit are israel, west and the leb gov. it doesnt seem like a syrian job.
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
how exactly does israel benefit from a lebanon torn apart in civil war?
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
its a continuation of its objectives. try to disarm hezbollah, to gather the hounds for syria.
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
Uhmmm wrong. This is the direct quote from the Geneva Conventions. *And, every single missle Hizbullah fired was in violation of the Geneva Conventions in a fashion that had **no *military objective, whose only purpose is the illegal bombardment of civilians.
Whats more, you can’t have it both ways. If you insist that parking missles close to civilian is just fine, then you can’t possibly object when a few innocents are blasted apart like Qana. It is not like there are not plenty of open fields, orchards, farmlands etc. where these missles can be located. There was a positive choice made to locate missles near civilians. Any guesses why someone would decide why to do that? Do you care about Muslim civilians, or has God given you and Hizbullah the authority to Martyr whomever for the greater political good?
Art. 58. Precautions against the effects of attacks
The Parties to the conflict shall, to the maximum extent feasible:
(a) without prejudice to Article 49 of the Fourth Convention, endeavour to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control from the vicinity of military objectives; (b) avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas; (c) take the other necessary precautions to protect the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control against the dangers resulting from military operations.
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
you really mean to tell me that hezbollah will disarm if lebanon gets embroiled in a civil war?
or the fact that a lebanese civil war will be disastarous for israel for that would mean al qaeda, other more militant faction can set up shop in southern lebanon and in conjunction with hezbollah start firing katusha rockets at israel and israel cannot hold the lebanese government accountable as it will have been disintegrated....
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
err the same reason it tried to tear lebanon apart a few months ago. Fortunately, it couldnt do as much then as everyone turned out in support of hezbullah, but by killing a lebanese politician and making it seem like it was hezbullah or syria, it sure is a more effective way to achieve what it wanted long ago.
hizbullahs mass demo plans would have shown them as a popular leader and may have caused the the pro west gov to resign even, but this killing has changed everything against them and has created more anti hezb. pro gov. feelings in lebanon.
As for the Leb gov., Hezbullah was planning mass protests against the gov. right about now, it had announced it plans for eveyone to be ready to take the streets, these plans have been distrupted as the mood has changed immediately. support for the 'victimised' gov. has increased and has divided the large christian community strongly, a majority of which support hezbullah. hence it smells of a last minute inside attempt to change the tide against them.
As for syria, after being blamed for rafeek hariri and other anti syrians, the syrians gov. commiting an assisination when it wasnts dialogue and deals with the west, would be like shooting itself in the foot. Its not very likely when it knows all fingers will immediately point to syria...however, there are other folks who know this and most likely took advantage of the situation to draw more anti syrian/hizbullah feelings.
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
So you mean to tell me that Israel's Mossad is so cunning and the Lebanese and Arab people are so stupid that fell for this Israeli carried out assassination. Initially even Hezbollah blamed the assassination on Israel but then changed its position to Syria.
So bascially, according to you, no matter what happens, blame Israel.
And if evidence is found that Israel was behind the assassination, it will unify the divided nation against Israel. This kind of thinking is a big problem in the Middle East as Israel has been seen as the most convenient excuse to blame everything on.
Or the fact that Syria was behind the assassination and it knows there are people out there like you who no matter what Syria did will blame Israel
Since you should know or I hope you know that the Syrian Intelligence is not under the direct jurisdiction of the Syrian President and so it can act as an independent entity. Israel has just as much to lose by the assassination even more so than Syria. If Israel gets blamed for the assassination, then it will unify the Lebanese people against Israel.
Concoting such ridicilous conspiracy theories and blaming Israel for everything only hampers self evaluation, growth and progress in the region.
Whats next, a traffic jam in Damascus, blame Israel?
A Broken Water Pipe in Cairo, blame Israel?
Is it any wonder with this kind of mindset that the Arab and Islamic Lobby are non-existent in USA.
This reminds me of a student constantly failing in class and the parent thinks the child is perfect where as its the school and teacher that have a conspiracy against his child and blames them instead of finding out that his child is really dum and must help him study.
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
*
Shrugs...it's simply a matter of honesty. Israel is guilty of the very same thing vis-a-vis the use of cluster weaponary, yet have the luxury of claiming colateral damage. hezb. could simply say they were in fact targeting military installations, but unfortunately their weaponary is none-too accurate...which seems to be an acceptable excuse by Western interpretations of the GC. Of course, they don't play such games.
Blah blah blah.
[quote]
Whats more, you can't have it both ways. If you insist that parking missles close to civilian is just fine, then you can't possibly object when a few innocents are blasted apart like Qana.
[/quote]
From what I saw, only AA weapons were parked near civilian areas, which makes perfect sense. And is something all armies do....the claim that the missiles Hezb. were firing into Israel were parked in civilian areas is an Israeli one, and one Amnesty does not endorse.
[quote]
Art. 58. Precautions against the effects of attacks
The Parties to the conflict shall, to the maximum extent feasible:
(a) without prejudice to Article 49 of the Fourth Convention, endeavour to remove the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control from the vicinity of military objectives; (b) avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas; (c) take the other necessary precautions to protect the civilian population, individual civilians and civilian objects under their control against the dangers resulting from military operations.
[/quote]
Excuse me? Setting military objectives within densely populated areas is what Israel was doing throughout the war, whereas Hezb. concentrated their efforts on the hillside outside of civilian areas.
In fact, Israeli commandos raided a hospital...something that seems to be a flagrant violation of said article. Holy double standards....
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
well stirring things for their own benefit is mossad’s job description. dont tell me you didnt know that?
well the idea behind these assasinations is not to leave behind any evidence that would point to them. :halo:
…considering everyone was ready to jump down syria’s throat the last time it happened, that line of thinking would be detrimental and unlikely from syria.
yeah like the thought of anyone blaming israel has stopped her before. :halo:
really? and a mental block towards israel help’s…how?
maybe, like if it involves in killing someone then you can safe assume whose behind the water leakage. :-p
nope, but i think thats prolly more because US is pro israel rather than anything else..
yeah…good for you.
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
Really, and how did u asertain that information?
But you have already deduced that Israel was behind them
but not everyone is ready to jump down syria’s throat. people like you believe that israel was behind them. doesnt it make sense for syria to beleive that even if they carry out these latest assassinations, they have nothing to fear as israel will get blamed
almost every assassination carried out by israel has been acknowledged by israel. the only one which is still in limbo is the assassination of Gerald Bull
because you blame israel for everything. pakistanis get accused by india of whenever something happens in india
no not really. because arabs present themselves as these blood thirsty undemocratic savages compels USA to support Israel
thank you
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
Human Rights Watch found no instance of Hezbollah hiding among civilians:
"And here's an interesting finding by Human Rights Watch, register it in your memory bank -- "no cases [were found] in which Hezbollah deliberately used civilians as shields to protect them from retaliatory IDF attack." So all those claims that you heard in the media that Hezbollah was hiding among civialians, forcing Israel to target civilian areas against its will, because it was the only way to get the cowardly Hizbullah... Human Rights Watch, which is very far from a pro-Arab (whatever that means) perspective, very far -- Human Rights Watch gets most of its funding from Jews, or a large percentage, they're very touchy on this question -- they couldn't find ONE case, one, where Hezbollah was using the Lebanese population as shields."
normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=646
Red Cross found that no Hezbollah rockets were fired from Qana:
ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34186
People who are mentally incompetent enough to believe in the myths Hezbollah fired from civilian areas or hid amongst civilians, should bring their evidence from Lebanese sources, since Lebanese media is very critical of Hezbollah. Till they do that, their arguments are bogus and they are shown to be liars on this forum.
Re: Lebanese Christian leader killed [split]
In the war against Lebanon, Israel did not care about civilians. This thinking is exemplified by Israeli "Justice" Minister Haim Ramon, who recently opined:
"All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah."
Find a similar quote by Nasrallah, in which he brazenly orders the murder of Israeli innocents.
Great article on what happened in Qana, unlike the pseudo-analysis which were posted by the intellectual midgets on this board:
anti-war.com/justin/?articleid=9459