Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Every Muslim should learn Arabic if he can...
...Or at least so that he can carry out his neccesary prayers and chants literally the way they were revealed by God in Arabic and actually understand them word per word..
The Koran and everything loose a lot of their meaning in other languages, transaltions can never be the Koran...
Arabic is the language of our religion and is universal to all Muslims regardless of their ethncity...
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Yeah I’ve noticed Persian and Urdu transaltions are more spiritually uplifitng than English but they don’t come close to the Koran.
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Obviously young kids are going to learn parrot fashion some parts of the quran when they become mature enough to understand the classical arabic then this is a natural progression also these days the quran is studied and the classical arabic in the quran is translated and the meaning extracted and discussed.
Saying ban classical arabic of the quran is a dream of people like Bush and Blair,they can then twist the quran and make it different versions like the bible which has 100 different versions and its no longer true anymore.
Why don’t we start saying the nimaz in italian too 
man some people really don’t think before they speak!
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Everyone does it. Talk about Astronomy…they refer you to the ideas of Astronomers…sick? You go see a doctor.
It only makes sense that on matters of theology, you’d reference a theologian…
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Nai yaar, its not always the same… A doctor deals in absolutes, facts of science…
I person with a cold will exhibit known symptoms of Cold.. The doctor relies on his knowledge to diagnose it as such.
An Astronomer see’s the big dipper and knows its the big dipper, nothing new.
Religion on the other hand is fluid, its application depends on the situation, its can be different in each case. It requires some amount of introspection, some flexibilty, the abilty to interpret the Koran and understand it and apply it to millions of various situations.. The scholrs of Islam however tend to be either lazy or just ignorant, they simply apply Islamic law they way they were taught to every situation.. Like Sharia for example cant be changed one bit, they dont interpret it, they simply regurgatate it, thats not progressive its retrogressive…
Its like the old saying, they miss the forest for the trees, meaning their interpretation of Islam is shallow and stagnant.. This is why Islam is stuck in a rut.. Its scholors never change to suit the changing times…
And it makes sense, everything changes, its the law of the universe, which god created.. So why should Isalm not follow the same example?
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
No, I thing the Sufis were AND ARE GREAT SCHLORS.. They tend to go into real depth… I mean they read the Koran, but they dont just regurgatate knowledge, they try to plum the depths of Islam.. They try to understand the true meaning. They say everything in Islam has two aspects to it.. The obvious, and the not so obvious.. For example, Wudhu is a cleansing, but the deeper meaning is far more profound.. So called scholrs simply see the Obvious and apply it as such without really understaning it..
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Sorry, PCG, you are good at describing a fantasy world?
Quran is preserved now and will remain preserved as human are no longer responsible for this task.
My opinion is its good for every muslim to learn basic Arabic enough to understand…
the meaning of Namaaz,
Dua,
perhaps last 10 Surah
Kalimahs.
There is no need to learn complete arabic as a language.
Whole Quran must be read in Arabic with translation no matter how slow one reads.
Kids must learn how to read arabic and its not necessary for them to learn the meaning till they are old enough to understand the meaning. This should be done under supervision of a real Aalim of whatever sect they belong to.
Just reading arabic Quran without translation by someone who can easily grasp the meaning, just makes no sense. But its quite Ok for kids at early stage of life.
Also while it is said (and I do not know why) that just reading Arabic Quran also has ‘Sawaab’… in my opinion doing so called **‘Quran Khwani’ **as a ritual may not be appropriate either. Often women gather for Quran Khwani read quran very fast, wear great clothes and make-up, and eat a lavish lunch or dinner, talk gossip… and go home with a bag or two of ‘sweet’!
reading just translation time to time (no arabic) is also a great idea.
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
"The scholrs of Islam however tend to be either lazy or just ignorant, they simply apply Islamic law they way they were taught to every situation.. Like Sharia for example cant be changed one bit, they dont interpret it, they simply regurgatate it, thats not progressive its retrogressive....
Its like the old saying, they miss the forest for the trees, meaning their interpretation of Islam is shallow and stagnant.. This is why Islam is stuck in a rut.. Its scholors never change to suit the changing times......."
Most muslims imams molvis and hafiz would like us to return to medieval times with sharia law and planty of head chopping of all undesirable people including those with different opinions.
This translates in a desire to return to the caves.
By doing so they hold back progress in muslims countries.
every muslim country is governed by repressive regimes with state controlled media and police.
The suffering of the common man is ignored.
Corruption is massive and endemic.
No muslim country has a welfare state.
200 kids killed by a seriel killer in pakistan ,nobody knew or cared or even noticed they were missing.
The only thing you see on state controlled is America bashing.
America bashing diverts attention from domestic problems and like little sheep indoctrinated by the mullahs ,Islam is used to wage a "Jihad" on america which of course so stupid.
Do you really think 200 million americans with the most wealth and military power are going to be destroyed by a bunch of ragtag terrorists crying jihad.
Its all so pathetic.
The goverments of course encourages this secretly to divert attention from poverty and corruption by the rich.
The most shameful thing is that Japan which was virtually destroyed in ww2 has risen from the ashes and become a moderm economic super power.
Pakistan which started from the starting line is still stuck in the last century with Islam as a millstone around the neck put there to stop any progress.The population is exploding and has doubled in the last 30 years to 130 million.
Most pakistanis live poor dreary lives and struggle to make ends meet while the mullahs and other power seekers use them to wage personal agendas.
Many of these mullahs seem to have planty of money and fancy cars and big houses with big families.Ever wonder where it all comes from?
The use of Islam without translation is a weapon to control these poor people and use them as cannon fodder.
ArabiC is a fine language but non arabic speakers have no idea what they are saying and the deeper meanings.They are simpley spouting gibberish if they dont understand arabic.This means they are at the mercy of demogogues who preach hatred and war.
That is why Isalam must only be taught in translation to non-arabic speakers.
Anyone who wishes to learn arabic may do so but the majority can hardly even afford to go to school which is why they make such "useful idiots" to be used and abused by the mullahs and other power hungry self appointed leaders.
"useful idiots"<----quote from USSR president Krushchev.
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
escellam your points are old tired lines now i think you should try some new lines muslims are not all backward like in the small world you live in achaa!
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Exactly. Sufis rock Islam and make it beautiful.
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
To those applauding Sufi practices, please be specific what Sufi belief and practice you are talking about. There are all types of Sufis...some practice legal methods of Tasawuff, while there are some who are so out of Islam, they dont even call themselves Muslims anymore. Please be specific.
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
well, that is why muslims are advised to read Quran with its translation and meaning and not just 'hil hil kar Quran parhna'.
infact, it seems like a new 'trend' in pakistan now adays to actually read Quran with its translation, a positive change in the society.
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Im telling you, if only we could have the progressive lovers of knowledge and exploration that there were back in the day, Islam and Muslims society could progress by leaps and bounds.. The stagnation is due to this inabilty to think outside the box, this staunch adherence to certain dogma and ideals that hinder any progress…
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
I simply mean the general concept behind Sufism. To Understand GOD, to understand his religion. The Sufis will meditate for hours on a single line. The other day I read the line “There is no god but god” and thats it.. Sufis will go so deep into it, they will try to understand the profound meaning of this line…
We need more scholors like this, not people going around regurgatating knowledge. I already know that there is no god but god apparently, I dont need a scholor for that, I already know the punishments for all the different kinds of taboos. Most of the basics we can figure out on our own, we dont need Scholors for that.. But the true meaning, the deeper meaning of the Koran and Islam in general, thats difficult, thats why we need scholors.. Unfortunately, the modern scholors dont do this, they memorize the Koran but they dont understand it, they regurgatate knowledge they dont understand. They are simple reciting, they are teaching. The only time they apply their memorized Islam is when they want to pass a Fatwa, or declare someone an infidel, or incite people to Jihad, and all through their shallow understanding of their relgion, which is quite dangerous for obvious reasons.
Its like the old saying "An A$$ with a thousand Korans straped to its back, will still be an A$$… ?
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Yeah, but you know they should really encourage people to not only understand the koran, but UNDERSTAND the Koran.. People should try to understand the indepth meaning…
Like I said that the Sufis will read the line “There is no god but god” and intepret this to mean so much more. Like this can eventually come to mean that there is nothing but god… Islam learned in this way is the closest to the divine.. We have t understand the relgion in its deeper sense..
This I think is also the way out of the problems Islam faces today, all the battle over dogma, intepretation, extremism etc..
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
**Arabic is the language of the Quran! This is what Allah choose it to be! You must recite the surahs in arabic when you pray... so shouldn't we all learn Arabic so that we can understand what we are saying! Astagfur'Allah!
Jazak Allahu kheirun Sadya!
Subhan'Allah!
The hadiths that we have today are all in arabic translated to english, insh'Allah to better understand, we must all do our best to learn arabic!
Allahu alam
**
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
isnt it easier to have someone translate it to your language and THEN read it? saying that arabic is the language of the Quran is soooooooo Rhetorical…Actually arabic was the language spoken by the people when the Prophet Revealed the Quran.
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Do you even know what it means the line “There is no god but god” means? It means that there is no God but Him. There is no Lord but Him, No one worthy of obedience but Him, and by that i mean no one should be obeyed if his commands contradict God’s commands. It also means that His Law should be implemented in this world.
Now lets apply this theory in the practical, something thats alien to Sufis, but it is something that is a requirement in the Deen. Tell me how many Sufis are actually working and struggling for the phrase “There is no god but god”, working implemented God’s Law in this world?
Let me shed some light on Sufism. The practics asceticism, which i believe is ok to some extent but a lot of Sufis go way into the extremes. Another thing they believe in is secret knowledge. Whereas there was no such thing as secret knowledge at the time of the Prophet. His last sermon said it all, “Iv delivered the Message to you, in full, everythings made clear to you”. I dont know where this secret knowledge came from, which they attribute to Islam. You have to be part of their group in order to learn, you have to submit yourself to your sheikh. Now you cannot say NO to the Sheikh in Sufism. You have to do EVERYTHING the sheikh tells you to do, even if its totally unacceptable to you common sense, logic, or basic Islamic beliefs. And i know mysticism and everything looks exotic and exciting, orthodox Islam is dull and boring, but the Truth is good is always boring, while evil will always be exciting.
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Actually Arabic is the language of the Quran. Translations are fine, but they should always be looked upon as a secondary reference and nothing more. Reason being…there are many words, hundreds of them, for which there are no exact words available in English. Hence translators choose the closest word for it and when they do that they loose part of the meaning of the word.
Compare different copies of the English translations and you would find that there is absolutely no uniformity. The sentences, though, still having the same meanings are constructed differently in each copy. Thats not the case with the Arabic copies. This is the sole reason why so much emphasis on Arabic, to preserve the Quran, word by word as it was revealed.
Re: Learning Islam Parrott Fashion
Pathetic comments. Wish this person takes a deep breath before finishing each sentence.
USSR presdient’s lapdog? Naw…just an ‘open minded person’ misunderstood by others…