Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

Which reflects the Pakistani mentality. Cant shake off the Mansabdari Mughal System from their minds.

Feudalism
Rank Concious
Materialist
Tribal
Power Craving
Nepotism

Thats Pakistani society in a nutshell.

In America, they have a culture of individualism, but they operate in one big group. There is centralization, civic sense, understanding of fellow man, etc.

In the Pakistan, they have culture of togetherness (within family/tribe), but they operate in finite groupings. Lack of central power. Constant war between parties. Nepotism, etc.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

If they make a sathyanaas of the country like elected officials in the past have done. Look, democracy is bullcrap if certain protective parameters are not in place to prevent or minimize abuse. You don't have that in Pakistan. Its like Iraq. You think elections have worked there? That president is about as powerless as a pansy. Who's really pulling strings in Iraq?

The best way to go about improving things is by identifying the problem and finding a proper solution to them.

I invoke my religious examples here. Was the Prophet's leadership imposed or was it voted on? Every do takay ka maulvi can tell you that "democracy" is haraam, and then here we are demanding it.

Don't get me wrong. I aint no maulvi. But I am a realist. Pakistan's solution, for the time being, doesn't involve democracy. It involves a smart-arse cunning politician with class who can keep everyone in line, and save Pakistan from being attacked in the "War on Terror". There are bigger issues than what Mr. Paanwala "feels" about Musharraf. Once the Pakistani public has some assurance that their votes will actually count and mean something, then you can have democracy. Once their votes are educated votes instead of parading around the guy with the most enthusiastic and emotionally moving speech, then democracy can work.

Right now, just take some poor guy off the street and engage him in dialogue and see how easy it is to brainwash a guy who hasn't gone past the 3rd grade, or perhaps never went to school. This is no joke; its a national disaster. And requires serious national rebuilding. Musharraf is utilitarian. Try mobilizing for social change the appropriate way, and this guy will listen. In fact, he'll be the only one listening.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

Very true. People keep shrugging these social issues off as insignificant compared to the political problems in Islamabad, but its THESE PROBLEMS that have caused all the mess. Only by fixing these core problems, will the politics and the economics fall into place. I don't agree with religous maulvis like MMA, but this is where the power of religion and family and values comes in. All this is lacking in Pakistan. And don't even tell me we have family values in Pakistan. I'm horrified at how mothers raise their kids in that country.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

I believe beatings from time to time are good.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

Musharrafs done nothing special either apart from making a satayanas out of the mulq like them... The difference is, musharraf hum ko muft me mil gya, atleast we elected NS and BB...

[quote]

The best way to go about improving things is by identifying the problem and finding a proper solution to them.

I invoke my religious examples here. Was the Prophet's leadership imposed or was it voted on? Every do takay ka maulvi can tell you that "democracy" is haraam, and then here we are demanding it.

[/quote]

so now youre using the Prophet's example to justify Musharraf's imposition on us? I dont event hink I should reply to that.

[quote]

Don't get me wrong. I aint no maulvi. But I am a realist. Pakistan's solution, for the time being, doesn't involve democracy. It involves a smart-arse cunning politician with class who can keep everyone in line, and save Pakistan from being attacked in the "War on Terror". There are bigger issues than what Mr. Paanwala "feels" about Musharraf. Once the Pakistani public has some assurance that their votes will actually count and mean something, then you can have democracy. Once their votes are educated votes instead of parading around the guy with the most enthusiastic and emotionally moving speech, then democracy can work.

[/quote]

No, we've had enough of that dictator, and we want him out, we gave him 8 years of his illegal reign, and now we want him out. I dont care how educated we are, we just dont want him imposed on us anymore.

[quote]

Right now, just take some poor guy off the street and engage him in dialogue and see how easy it is to brainwash a guy who hasn't gone past the 3rd grade, or perhaps never went to school. This is no joke; its a national disaster. And requires serious national rebuilding. Musharraf is utilitarian. Try mobilizing for social change the appropriate way, and this guy will listen. In fact, he'll be the only one listening.
[/quote]

What the hell has Musharraf done in the last 8 years to change anything except making the country into a crap hole?

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

If I remember correctly, Musharraf used Prophet PBUH's one of the accords (Meesaq-e-Medina???) as an example to one of his bargains then she is probably trying to use the same "analogy", what comparison!

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

I'm not saying he's anything like the Prophet. I'm saying that if we can privately be ok with a non-democratic system, then why not publically and nationally?

If you guys really want democracy and you feel ALL of Pakistan wants democracy, then Pakistanis should not be giving any respect to the first 4 caliphs - none of them were elected democratically. Maybe if they were...oh well that would be opening up a pandora box for the muslim world who is so in dire need of democracy these days.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

End point is your nation - Pakistan - is, unfortunately, one ****ed up nation. Look at your problems:

High Illiteracy (75% or more)
Lack of Infrastructure (your a nuclear state where the ghada ghardee rolls side by side with an elitists mercedes imported from germany)
Inflation
Geographic Position (in between Iran, Afghanistan, China, India and the Ocean)
Lack of Centralization and Competeing Parties
Talibanization and Extremism
International Stress

Your trying to outperform or keep India contained while they grow leaps and bounds. To your top, you know once the US leaves, the City Goverment of Kabul wont be able to hold the Taliban from raiding the NWFP. To your left, Ahmadinejad believes the end is near, Israel has to be destroyed, and how best to attack the US before the US attacks Iran first.

Rising population, all resources contained in the top 15%, illiteracy, hostile neighbors, Political Problems, Seperatist Movements, Volatile Economic Infrastructure, Practically No Friends in the International Community (Saudi Arabis is not your friend) . .. . a country thats sort of just "floating" so to speak.

Hahaha. God Bless America.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

What did the Ocean ever do to Pakistan??

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

I thik what Green Haired sister is saying:
Musharraf right now is the man. Either him, or if the Chief Justice HIMSELF was running. You dont need a dumbass from London or a Failed Bhutto. These people are exiled from your nation, remember?

Just think about that. Exiled leaders - faulty for corruption (robbing the nation) are being invited back in?
Would anyone in the world elect bona fide criminals to lead the nation? How pathetic you are.

Funny thing is, even if Musharraf is elected, you wont get any stability. These lawyer riots are part of the things to come. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

True Democracy in Pakistan would create another South East Europe. Balochistan and NWFP would seperate. Karachi to be a city state. The rest of Pakistan will be absored into India or run itself.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

What is your source of this number? Just a guess?

Here it is from CIA factbook:

definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 49.9%
male: 63%
female: 36% (2005 est.)

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

If u r going to judge a person by who they support, then I am not sure there's much reason to cheer for MQM at the polls because they r supporting a dictator. To some it's ok but for me it's a cardinal sin for any political party. All work done by Karachi Nazim, for whom I do have a bit of respect, gone to waste simply because he is member of a party that supports dictators.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

The PML (N) supported the dictator Zia, and then of course they made a deal with Musharraf to get out of jail and flee to Saudi Arabia.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

Altaf bhai also hoped (the day he ran out of pakistan) that he was looking for a woman like Hazrat Khadijah to marry...

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

Spockji! Off-topic! But I really wonder with your recent bombardment on the GS, you were watching us quietly over the last 3-4 months.

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

Like our own Mr. Cowasjee said:

Dakoo chori kar ke raseed bhi deegay.....

Re: Lawyers did not fight for present judiciary: Aitzaz

Aitzaz’s colleagues demonstrating what they think of the judiciary noew.