Lack of freedom for Muslim of India

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

@ravage

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a smaller, economically impoverished class or a wealthy class of which most of the ruling elite is formed.
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So Iqbal's was a case of self-fulling prophecy, if partition hadn't happened, today Muslims would constitute 40% of India's population, and the wealthy Muslims wouldn't have migrated to Pakistan. So there would be a large educated, wealthy class amongst the Muslims of India too.

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the first two being Muslim countries are hardly related to the topic
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So we agree that Muslims are safer in Non Muslims countries (including India) than a number of Muslim ones (including Pakistan) ..

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the discrimination there is more ethnic than religious
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This is pure conjecture.

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urthermore the violence is committed by the state as opposed to ordinary citizens.
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Are you aware of Urumqui riots ?

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

And I thought this thread was about Salman Khan :nahi:

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

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o.2 have to proven, or if you already made your mind that's a different story then.
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It is proven to everybody in the world, except some Pakistanis.

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Just today, Indian Security forces fire on the crowd in Kashmir and killed 24 people. Now were they terrorists ? Y
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No. Rioters are shot at in every developing country in the world, including Pakistan. This doesn't make the security forces terrorists. BTW these very same "protesters" also burnt down a Catholic school today.

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

Fact that some Muslims are doing well does not impact the reality of communal riots in India. And the purpose of Gujrat example wasnt to call Indian Muslims blameless, rather to substantiate the fact that it was Muslims that suffered most, and generally suffer most in communal violence in modern, post-colonial India. The 'kartoot' of Muslim invaders is besides the point.

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

Iqbal’s prophecy wasnt that Muslims would be impoverished in India (although even with the wealthy Muslims included, they were economically less well-off). Furthermore there is only a certain amount of wealth ‘wealthy’ Muslims could have taken with them to Pakistan. The wealth and income they had was based in India, and thats where it remained.

no, we simply agree that Muslim countries are irrelevant when discussing a ‘two-nation’ theory applied to Muslim minorities.

That it is pure conjecture is conjecture on your part :slight_smile:

From just the first few paragraphs of wiki:

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

I am extremely sorry but Let me tell you.The numbr of Indians(Including Hindus,Muslims Christians and others) increases by the time,who think that partition was good for India and for them, seeing the present quagmire Pakistan is in.Even Muslims are not safe.This belief is being strengthened each time a blast occurs in Pakistan.

The other day a Muslim colleague of mine said the same thing abt Mr.Jinnah.He pleasantly thanked Mr.Jinnah for dividing India making his and his family safe.

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

heres the thing with anecdotes. you tend to ignore the fact that people will tell you things you want to hear and neglect to tell you things you dont want to hear. i can tell you many personal stories of Muslims in India who love the idea of Pakistan for the reasons that Jinnah and Iqbal wanted it.. a homeland distinct from the Hindu dominated India. But its not really evidence of anything.

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

I think people who post on rediff.com do not really reflect thinking of all the non-Muslims in India.

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

You need to get your sarcasm detector re-tuned :chai:

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

i'm a nonmuslim and i'm happy that pakistan was created, i find jinnah very secular. do you have to be muslim to be happy that partition happened? why does it always go back to the big event that happened during our granparents time? why is it that people just can't move on

oh and the earlier comment, is it that some muslims just don't find anything in common with nonmuslims and feel they are separate nations that this 2 nation theory will happen in the other western nonmuslim countries too eventually and is inevitable when the muslim population goes up to say 20%? is that what the United States, France, UK will be looking towards in the distant future?

afterall muslims and nonmuslims are separate nations, there's no denying that right?

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

Huh? Maybe you are forgetting he ofcourse has larger number of fans in india (cuz of its pop) so how can he risk it?! He said what he felt and you guys can twist it as much as you want but i think there are better ways of showing your hatred :).

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

a muslim indian cannot live in peace but a mulsim pakistani is in amazing amount of peace (please ignore getting beaten to death by your mohally wala in Ramadhan, getting blasted into pieces while praying inside a mosque, killed by suicide bombers during religious procession, slaughtered by Talibans if you have a barber shop and you are shaving beards, whipped publicly if you are a female and not wearing a burqa - yup ignore these insignificant factors but otherwise its all hunky dory in Pakland)

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

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Iqbal's prophecy wasnt that Muslims would be impoverished in India (although even with the wealthy Muslims included, they were economically less well-off). Furthermore there is only a certain amount of wealth 'wealthy' Muslims could have taken with them to Pakistan. The wealth and income they had was based in India, and thats where it remained.
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You completely missed my point. A wealthy and educated elite class of Muslims was necessary to give leadership to Indian Muslims and guide them in a positive direction. However after the migration of Muslims Elite from India after Partition, the Mullahs assumed the leadership for the poor Muslims of India and largely dictate the social and religious discourse. This is the reason that even today the personal laws of Indian Muslims are even more regressive than those of Pakistan. The opportunistic (often Hindu) politicians made alliances with these Mullahs and exploit them as a vote bank.If a Hindu criticizes these Mullahs and their version of Islam, he is labeled as Islamophobic or worse a RSS-walla. The rise of orthodoxy amongst the Indian Muslims had a equal and opposite reaction from the Hindu society. One sees the echo of this in the British society with the rise of parties like BNP and EDL.

In other words, Iqbal's prophecy that - Muslims and Hindus- can't live together, was partially fulfilled when educated Muslims left India and Indian Muslims were denied an enlightened leadership.

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no, we simply agree that Muslim countries are irrelevant when discussing a 'two-nation' theory applied to Muslim minorities.
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The OP said that A Muslim Indian never lives in peace, my argument is that Indian Muslims lives in much more peace than a Pakistani Muslim.

Regarding China, the only thing that you have proven is that the discrimination and killings of Uighar Muslims were further exacerbated by ethnic/cultural differences. In Urumqui the repression was not just by State Police but even normal Hans rioted against the Muslims. All this we know even when media is heavily censured in China, God knows what else goes on behind the bamboo curtain.

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the fact that it was Muslims that suffered most and generally suffer most in communal violence in modern, post-colonial India. The 'kartoot' of Muslim invaders is besides the point.
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Historically, societies in the Indian subcontinent have been largely peaceful interrupted by despicable incidents of horrible violence. Partition never solved this problem. Indeed it was based on a intolerant premise - that Hindus and Muslims can't live together. After independence, a need was felt to justify Pakistan's creation to Pakistani citizens. Rather than appreciacion for diversity, intolerance for the "other" and a desire for a monolithic society was inculcated into the social discourse. Ahmadis were the first casualty during the 1952 anti-Ahamdi riots. Shias were brutally repressed in Gilgit. Both these minority sects continue to face widespread discrimination and violence. The desire for a homogeneous Muslim society also widened various ethnic schisms in Pakistan including Punjabi/Bangla, Mohajir/Sindhi, Pashtun/Mohajir, Pashtun/Punjabi, Balochi/Punjabi, etc.

OTOH, in India one sees that consistent anti-Indian stance and policy by Pakistan has exacerbated the problems of Muslims as it has given a convenient stick in the hands of the right wing forces. A curious fact: in 1984 General Election BJP only won 2 Parliamentary seats. In 1989 elections BJP scored 85 seats, incidentally the same year when the Pakistan backed mujahideen were terrorizing the Kashmiri Pandits.

So I leave it to you to conclude whether Partition was good or bad from the POV of Muslims of pre-Partition India.

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

Peace Maham

Please read the whole response first: early in this thread I replied to your question, ok I joked about his shirt stuff, but I did give you a clear reply, instead you wrote to me saying this:

I was not declaring any dislike of him. I don't know him. Naturally you opened a thread without telling us what happened to him so we had to guess or work it out, it created the premise for many people here to start talking off topic, because the topic was not made clear to us. Anyway I did search out the news and I wrote that when someone tries to please too many people they will end up in a corner. Now look at what N3m3sis said:

To answer this you wrote:

It's not about knowing the size of your fan base. The people who you need to 'blame' are the reporters of the story who have twisted it. The Indian authorities didn't twist it. If he said something without realsing the impact on the people (ignorant impact) that is then he should have been wise and said that he did not have an opinion. The reason why the reporter asked him the question was so he could be hung up to dry for even attempting to answer it. He should have remained silent on the politics and that was his MISTAKE. I'm not calling him a fake Muslim and I'm not in the business of hating people, but we need to realise three parties here:

a) The evil intentions of the journalists making 'news'
b) The naive response of Salman
c) The ignorant population who don't know when they are being played
d) The heartbroken fans who blame all this on the people rather than the media

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

@Maham

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Maybe you are forgetting he ofcourse has larger number of fans in india (cuz of its pop)
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Yes, he has. That is why he apologized for the interview. I am not twisting the words, he himself said that the Channel twisted his words.

@pysah

Yes. He should have said No Comments.

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

Just to clarify, I don't wish Pakistan to fail or merge with India. We are happy with our current borders and want Pakistan to be a prosperous nation, more preoccupied with the welfare of its own citizens, rather than those of other nations.

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

I never said it was all fine in Pakistan but here there r diff issues and i am sure these issues r in India too and for everyone. I was particularly talking about Muslims of India.

I know what you are saying but i felt he didnt say anything wrong, he is entitled to his opinion. But yah its a tricky situation and a sensitive one so maybe avoiding commenting on it would have been a better option.

He had no option but to apologise otherwise they would have been after his case.

Thanks. Wish the same for you guys. But this mattter did involve Pakistan hence our (or atleast mine) interest.

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

I have many Muslim friends from India who belong to many parts of india. Only on Eid, I met muslims from Punjab, Lucknow, Bihar, Kashmir. We even talked about this topic and they all laughed at this myth. I suggest that you get in touch with real Indian Muslims to get the real scoop on how peaceful they are.

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

That reminds me a column written by Javed chudhary on death of Hakeem Muhammad Saeed ..

Indian Muslims are safe in Karbala - while pakistani muslims are getting brutally killed in madina

Re: A Muslim Indian never lives in peace

I have also lived in Canada for about 10 years and i have interacted with alot of Muslim Indians and infact have 1-2 in our family now too. So i know what i am talking about, maybe the ones you interacted with are plain lucky or the ones i interacted with are unlucky.