sabah: if the argument is that they're helping women find non-conventional careers through the races, then i dont really buy that. the outcome is probably going to be that these races are going to be hard to digest for a large majority of pakistanis, and will represent to the typical pakistani another example of how far-out women demanding more rights are. since the woman facing opposition in the way of a career will now be likened to a very visible example of unnacceptable, publicly ridicululed western-pana (the races) all this marathon stuff will probably be a blow when it comes to the emancipation of women.
you have to live in the same society, you cannot invent or impose a completely new one. no point in being so confrontational.
that said.. the police violence is really really sad. and asma jehangir just seeks to make headlines for the sake of making headlines.
MQ, do you know what the term ‘coherent’ means? That’s exactly what your argument is not. Dumbo, being able to run is also one of the freedoms they are fighting for. Has it occurred to you that women who are not even allowed (or being able to compete) in a mundane task as running will be given rights to protest over much bigger issues? All this fight is about equality, and some thickheads refuse to recognize that women are treated as shyt in Pakistan. If some courageous ones take a stand, they are given lectures by idiot, oh..why don’t you do that, why don’t you do this… bullcrap.
Confontational? I assume you would have suggested spreading the word by peaceful knitting to suffragettes and co? They were made a joke of, they were laughed at and ridiculed and beaten - but look at the strides made and look at how much they achieved through very non peaceful (and confrontational) means.
It is frankly pathetic that we as a culture are over a century in retardation with reguards to human rights and sexual equality. What are you men so afraid of?
If the women continue to stay quiet and placid then nothign will be gained. And inventing a new culture sounds good to me, there arent too many perks in this one.
These thickheads are very self righteous in their indignation, they quite possibly really believe that the liberation of women (other than themselves) is a wrong and immoral act. I repeat that women are often the biggest oppressors. If they were not then you wouldnt be here defending their rights, and some thickheads would not be vehermently opposed to any attempt at point-making.
Hiccup I have four min before I dash off to my dance class :)
Rava, I'm not selling anything, neither was Asma. When ppl don't respect what is rightfully yours, ie. freedom, you just go take it. If the society wants respect, they better accept freedom of those who want it and respect it. I, personally would fry anyone who'd dare tell me that I can't walk out alone anywhere I wanted. I wouldn't give a ratsass to those who think I'm provoking their lame mind, my religion allows me certain freedom and none can deny me that.
Abhi provocation in a illiterate society ko kaise deal karte haiN, can you communicate, yes. Does it take all the time you don't have, yes. can you provoke it to take effect a bit faster? Yes. Would you choose to do that? Hell yes! Thing is that you do not 'Have to' do anything. apni qabar meiN ham sab akele hoN ge, so better look out for that first. Ppl need to accept women in all forms and in all activities. Societies grow because it's provoked, dumb mummies can only bring about so much change. I hope we agree that we need fresh change, a walk over GS alone, shows how badly we need one, change that is.
MQ, replying to you requires more time, and I'm of for today.
Hiccie, as I have always maintained, its not our culture (but the mess of our country) that needs to be violently shaken and purified. There is this inherent hypocrisy about Pakistan (for example, no Indian movies in Cinema, but every house has the latest Hindi Movies on DVD), we hate the West, but lines to leave the country are at all times long (everyone wants to move to Amrikkka).
Those who have no clue about our culture are the biggest opponents of gender equality, because they feel threatened and use Culture as an excuse (just as Mullahs use Islam as an excuse). Our Culture is not exclusionary, it’s only some rituals and some regional garbage that has kept women like goats in Pakistan.
Last year, in Lahore, my wife was sun bathing in our front lawn in her bikini and bra, and she attracted lot of stares by our neighbors. Now I get calls from our neighbors in Lahore asking me when are we coming again.
I like what Saba said (I like Saba too) that everyone should be able to do what they like. If you wana run in Hijab, do so, but don’t tell others they should too.
MQ, please read up a little bit on Asma Jahangir. If there is one woman in this country who speaks and actively protests against injustices (including rape cases) done to the women its Ms. Jahangir.
This particular protest is very vital for the development of a saner Pakistani society. Its not about running races or marathons, not even particulatly about women's rights. Its a symbolic opposition to the rising extremism in Pakistan. If these people (Asma Jahangir, Iqbal Haider) weren't even doing this in the face of blantant thuggery from the MMA goons, God knows how far back Pakistan will go in a matter of years.
Oh even if I did not know what ‘coherent’ meant, I am sure gs folks could enlighten me.
Running races along with men is progress? That is utter BS. If women want rights to work in hospitals, the business sector, government, they should protest by trying to get those jobs. And nothing ever changed in a matter of minutes.They need to bring about why women should be allowed to do such and such and how not only are they equal, but they can benefit the whole nation because of such and such. What the hell is the point of a bunch of women running along with men? Its seen as worthless, by me and probably the majority of people in Pakistan. If women want equality, they should take proper steps to go about it. If they wish to incite the public and the police etc, they are making it harder for themselves for any future progress. What is needed, is education. By that I mean the people should know that from an Islamic view point, men and women are equal. Symbolic? yeah right. A whole lot of good they are doing by getting beaten and arrested. Its for the head lines.
I say they should go about concentrating on the main issues, and not the ‘symbolic’ ones, and I am against women being given equal rights. What a joke. I like it though. Shows so much.
It is then excellent if she goes around and speaks out against the injustices done to women of Pakistan. However, she is also one of those people who adores to generalize. I am allergic to such views, where everything and everyone is thrown into one category. But good for her, she protests for women.
Bow to her? Sorry you lot are doing it, I will stand by and watch.
I like what Saba said (I like Saba too) that everyone should be able to do what they like. If you wana run in Hijab, do so, but don’t tell others they should too.<<<
That is an interesting point, no not the liking sabah baji, but the idea of freedom. If someone has been brainwashed into thinking a certain way, they will indeed fight opposing ideas with all their might becasue the idea that there was somthing wrong somewhere with their upbringing or their taribiat is frightening - wheither or not the end result be positive or otherwise.
There were many slaves who really and truely believed that they were born to be slaves - that the idea of equality was high flung and vaguely ridiculous, dangerous and should be quashed. This, I believe is similar.
Our culture IS messed up, a large proportion of it is based around the idea of our predetermined roles in family and society, roles defined by a male society and sheltered up bringings, the priorities and elaborate functions - it is all very sqewed to the favour of the illiterate. And let us not discuss the nature of desi politics in the home and outside.
It is funny how men are afraid to be subordinate to women in the work place - as though they are afraid their ability - or lack thereof will be more keenly scrutinised under the eyes of the female. Or maybe its the raising bars of standard that bothers them.
LOL MQ is blaming the women who got arrested and beaten for getting headlines. I guess the police and Islam are right. Muslim women deserve to beaten to death!
MQ, my bad ... all the Muslim Queens sound so similar. They ask a question, get a reply, then they repeat the questions without letting anything through their thick skulls.
BTW that is my whole point in the thread on "Women and Freedom" they cause more problems when left to jog,run and basically do what free people do "think for themselves".
