Kismat / Entrapment

I tried the search feature - didn’t find much material. Feel free to direct me to already discussed topics realted to kismat.

Q - If What we earn is fixed, why do we need to work for it? (why can’t we just sit and wait for what is written for us to come to us)

Q - If Allah knows that in certain circumstances I will commit a sin (basically broke down in front of my nafs because stress was too much for me to bear), whereas I would have generally (in differenct less stressful circumstances) would have NOT committed the sin - why was I put into that entrapment situation?

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

If you will just sit and do nothing you will not get anything. You have to work to get your share. Plus how do you know how much is in your “kismat”? If I work less I may get get less or maybe more and if I work hard and try to get more I may get more but where do you draw the line that this much was in my kismat and I got this much extra?

Thats what I would call a test and thats where you are really being tested.

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

For your second question i have a sort of an answer, but it is not a complete answer. I do not believe we will ever be able to fully understand the idea of fate and destiny. Our minds are too feeble and it would require a feat of supernatural orders for us to fully understand this concept.

But anyway, here is one way to look at it. There is a popular theory among many scientists and philosophers called the Parallel Universe theory. What it states that there are an *N *number of parallel universes that are coexisting with each other. Every universe differs from the other with minute differences. A very basic example, you are thinking of going to eat out for dinner. You have two choices. You could go to Restaurant A or Restaurant B. You decide to go to Restaurant A. In another parallel universe though you decided to go to Restaurant B instead.

We do believe in Allah's infinite wisdom and that He is the Master of anything and everything, including time. He is aware of every outcome in all existing universes. From the time you are born, every decision you make leads you to a different outcome. Every person can have millions and billions of different decisions he/she takes till he/she dies. Allah knows all those outcomes. What he has left to us is to decide which path we choose to take and what end result we achieve.

We as humans often underestimate the Free Will that has been given to us. No other creature in this universe has been given that luxury, not even angels. The Jinnaat have been free will too but humans have been placed in a position higher than them and have been sent to rule over them. We humans have been sent down to earth as representatives of Allah and it is up to us to represent Allah in the best possible way, i.e. choose the most correct path and make the best decisions... instead of questioning our fate and destiny. :)

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

@teaser: Q1 : LOL You are somewhat rephrasing my question. I do not have answer, hence I am asking pretty much the same thing.

@ teaser + Cheegum: Q2: I know those answers, i don't find them satisfactory. Life is too complicated to answer it that simply. Let me try to explain it a bit more:

Everyone has a breaking point. You can stress someone enf and they will break down. Some will just breakdown and cry, other may go commit suicide.
Everyone has a different threshold of breaking point. If circumstances are such that you DON'T break down - then its a test (we not concerned with this case). If circumstances are so extreme that a person breaks down, they cannot think logically - is that still a test? or is that entrapment?

For example, Heared this in the news a while ago : a desi (south indian) high skool student residing in USA went home and killed his entire famile because he failed an exam. He killed his mother and father first, then killed his younger sister because he didn't knew wat else to do (some claimed this was out of love to his sister). If I remember correctly - he committed suicide himself after this tragic incident.

Point being: Maybe his parents made such a big deal out of him passing classes that when he failed - he broke down. He didn't knew how to face the dissapointment. God knew he would not be able to take this - why couldn't he made him pass marginally? Made his parents say somefin kind in regards to his skool - that may have detered him from his actions?

Please do not refer to the example. This was just to explain my point (hopefully will not confuse people). If we start discussing the examples, we mite loose the bigger picture :)

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

look for justice of God and predestination by clicking here

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

LOL am I? :cb: chalo koi bat nahi :slight_smile: I hope someone else can answer this so I can learn too.

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

Q - If What we earn is fixed, why do we need to work for it? (why can't we just sit and wait for what is written for us to come to us)

ANS: The maximum amount you can earn is fixed, and God can fix that easily by setting the amount of Gold (or something else of value) available in the world, and the number of people who desire it. You cannot earn more gold than that which exists within the world and you will have to compete with others that want it as much as you do.

As for the second part of this question, God has also fixed what you will recieve if you don't work for it, but it won't necessarily be equal to what you would get if you worked. If you became paralyzed, perhaps your family or a charity group would attempt to take care of you. In this case, God has placed you among such a family and placed people that would form a charity group, and is thus taking care of you. If God had planned that you would die from hunger when you were 5, you could have been born in such a family. No amount of work, or lack of work would have saved you from that death if God had intended it to be.

Q - If Allah knows that in certain circumstances I will commit a sin (basically broke down in front of my nafs because stress was too much for me to bear), whereas I would have generally (in differenct less stressful circumstances) would have NOT committed the sin - why was I put into that entrapment situation?

ANS: In the Quran it says that God does not burden a soul with more than it can bear. So you are not being challenged such that it is impossible for you to resist temptation. In another part of the Quran God says about money that if He were to ask for all of your money, you would act niggardly, and thus God would bring to light one of your failings. So God knows of the things that you would fail to do and is not asking them from you.

It comes down to this, if you value or prioritize something above God and you are presented with a situation where you have to pick, you will choose that something else over God. If God is your highest priority, you will choose what God wants in every situation. This life is here for you to work on yourself until your highest priority is God, or get as close to that goal as possible before you die.

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

I will try to answer the first question..second question u on u own :p

  1. What we will earn IS pre-determined, however, the means by which we earn that money is our test in this life. Whether we earn it with halal means (teaching, medicine etc) or through non-halal means (drugs, prostitution, for some even finance is off-limits)....that's why we have to work for our riZq. It can be said that it is in someone's kismat to earn six figures, to have the best of the best in this world--but he earns that money by selling drugs or running a corporation that funds/exploits child labor (just as an example)....

Just take a week off and go away :)

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

Pre-destination VS Freewill.
An idea philosophised and debated over for centuries, to no one answer. But this is something that is so powerful to ponder about. Here are some ideas:

One ANALOGY:
If I am standing, and I raise one leg, that is freewill- the fact that i cannot raise the other is pre-destination.

Another ANALOGY:
If a fisherman starts to believe that everything is pre-determined, he will stop fishing. Will the fish swim to him, up out of the water, and into his lap?

As for the sins, we ALWAYS have a choice. He never places a burden on us, greater than what we can bear. In any case, even if we commit sins, if we are still alive afterwards, alhamdulillah, perhaps He is giving us a chance to repent, and thus become closer to Him...?

Also: Do you see time as 'linear'? And if so, does that really make sense? If you think about it, we only recognise time as being linear because it's what makes sense for us. We remember yesterday but not tomorrow, therefore we are movingin a certain direction. But this is not necessarily true. Couldn't it be that everything is one huge simultaneous beautiful ball of everything? Perhaps then freewill and predestination make perfect sense. I'm REALLY sorry if that didn't make sense...

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

If I believe in religion, I do not see free will at all. Everything IS predestined but portrayed as free will. Only by not believing in organised religion you take the reign of your destiny in your own very capable hands.
I totally agree with the thread starter on the second point, it is entrapment.

Re: Kismat / Entrapment - I mostly agree

First off, a very good thread after a long time. Indeed, there is no such thing as predistination, else we would not be accountable for our actions. Most of this qismat element comes from Semitic, Mesopotamian and Indian belief systems and are actually alien to Islam. And it does not end there:

Collectivity is still required...

How nations choose to perish

17:16 (Here is the Divine Law of Requital for nations.) We let the leaders of a nation commit corruption, drift out of discipline and consider themselves above Law. Then Our Law annihilates them completely. (And the leaders and the public are left blaming one another 7:38, 10:28, 14:21, 16:86).

22:45 And how many a township have We (Our Law of Requital) annihilated, for they oppressed people and violated human rights! And now they lie deserted, with their roofs caved in! And how many a well lies abandoned, and how many a castle in ruins that once stood high!

21:11 Our Law of Requital has dashed into fragments many nations because of their unjust systems and We replaced them with other people.

22:48 (“As you sow, so shall you reap”, is a rock-solid Law, as evidenced by the history of the rise and fall of nations.) How many communities have gone before whom I gave respite although they were transgressors, but then My Law of Requital seized them. For with Me is the end of all journeys.

28:58 And how many a town We annihilated, which exulted in their life of ease and plenty! Such that most of their dwelling places have remain deserted after them. For it is indeed We alone Who shall remain when all else have passed away!

34:34 Whenever We sent a Warner to any community its rich elite declared, “Behold, we reject the message you are sent with.”

16:112 Allah gives you an example. Think of a township that used to be secure and prosperous, with provision coming to it in plenty from all directions. But, they practically denied Allah's blessings by not sharing them with the needy. So Allah’s Law made it experience the garb of hunger and fear for their wrong system. (6:44).

43:23 Thus it is. Whenever We sent, before you, a Warner to a community, its luxurious ones said, "Behold, We found our fathers following a certain religion, and we are following their footprints."

65:8 And how many a community has rebelled against the Command of its Lord and His Messengers! Hence, We called each to account with a stern accounting and punished it with an exemplary punishment.

22:46 Have they never journeyed about the earth, letting their hearts gain wisdom, and causing their ears to hear? Indeed, it is not their eyes that become blind, but blind become their hearts that are in the breasts.

6:123 This is how We allow the greatest ones in every community to become its greatest criminals, to weave their schemes. Yet it is only against themselves that they scheme without even knowing it.

7:3-4 O People! Follow what has been sent to you from your Lord and follow no masters other than Him. How seldom do you keep this in mind! (You will find ample documentation in history that when communities ignored Our Permanent Value System they met with destruction.) How many a community Our Law of Requital has annihilated! Our Requital visited them by night, or while they slept at noon.

15:4 And Our Law of Requital annihilated no community or township before the period of respite was over (13:38).

When does Du'a work

31:32 And so, when violent waves surround them like shadows of gloom, they call unto Allah, sincere in their faith in Him (and work according to Divine Laws). But as soon as We save them ashore, some of them compromise (with falsehood). Yet none could knowingly reject Our Messages unless he is a betrayer to his own “Self”, ungrateful for such blessing.

As you can see, Dua's will ONLY work when there are no more ways we can resolve the issue our selves. A Dua will ONLY work when there are no other options left for us by which we can solve it. God has given us sufficient means to resolve almost anything ourselves. This can be seen by this verse:

4:97 As for those who wrong their own “Self” by not striving until the angels (the Universal Laws of death) approach them, they are asked, “What kept you occupied?” They say, “We were weak and oppressed in the land.” The angels say, “ Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to migrate?” As for such, their habitation will be Hell, a miserable destination.

God did not accept their Du'a because they were not reflected in their actions. The effort was ill-directed. He already gave the means to solve it themselves. Their excuse is that they were weak and surpressed, but they are confronted that God gave them the possibility to migrate, because they did not make use of this possibility, their excuse is not accepted. People pray to God for help while ignoring the help He already gave them, this is a gross offense to God and all the blessings He already gave us.

So you see we can't say we must pray more, or that fate is predestined? It is in a certain way, but it is along the lines "Do good and you will prosper - Do evil and perish".

People think that God will answer those prayers while He gave us enough possibilities to solve them ourselves? You ask him food while He gave you the land to grow them yourselves? You ask peace while we only need to lay down our weapons? God will not help when He has given enough possibilities already to resolve it ourselves, it is time mankind will understand this. We have the means to create peace already, because we will not accept these possibilities God will not give us more. We want to create the best society? Then we must work for it and make use of the possibilities God already gave us. Prayer will only help when there are no more options left, and we are far from no more options, we still have millions of unused options.

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

dear hypnotix-2000,
At first, when I read your post, I thought maybe you were slightly insane… But, SubhanAllah, now I’ve thought about it and it makes much more mechanical sense. Predestination, in as far as our birth goes (colour, place, family etc) can be understood. As for everything else, we always have a choice. And just because Allah (swt) KNOWS what our choices will be (because He has Ultimate Knowledge), that does’nt mean HE chose for us. We make the choices, He just knows what we’re going to choose.

But what about strange events like usual systems randomly breaking down, making way for a unique event? For example, you’re trying to get to work but your car breaks down and the bus doesn’t turn up and so you decide to walk as far as you can and then get a cab but then you get every single red light possible and a traffic jam. And THAT day something unique (a fire, an armed robbery, a special celebrity turns up) happens at work and you MISSED IT because of all of the delays!.. What’s that? (Excuse my off-key example, but I think you know what I mean…) If you’re going to say FATE (which I don’t think you are) then aren’t FATE and Predestination the same? Or maybe it’s PROBABILITY that is so stunning we HAVE to call it fate because it seems so unreal? vbmenu_register(“postmenu_4781321”, true);

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You have nailed it to the cross!! Excellent analysis! :) I would say that all these mishaps that happen out of the blue are an integral part of life.

Hardship (and natural disaster) befalls all nations (and people) but how quickly and effectively they recover depends on how they have chosen to live.

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

Also, I think its necessary to define the type of Du'a you are talking about :)
The thing with Du'a is not to ask Allah to do things for us. But to always make du'a, asking Allah to help us find the right solutions. God helps those who help themselves. Furthermore, there is no harm in making Du'a, simultaneously to being pro-active about it ourselves. In fact, there is benefit as it strengthens our resolve and brings us nearer to Allah (swt). I think you mean it as a 'last resort' when you've done everything and then you say 'Ya Allah, make such and such thing happen' as opposed to 'Give me the strength and guidance to to do such and such thing'.

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

Yes indeed! And I hope we collectively realize this before it is too late...

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

Also interesting is how our freewill affects others. Like our names. Our parents named us certain things, without our free consent, in the majority of cases. And we do things all the time that affect others, without their consent. The whole of existence depends upon this, actions bouncing off of one another. The way we affect one another. It's beautiful. SubhanAllah. So we can't really call it predestination when things happen TO us. Because it's pretty much the fabric of existence itself.
I could talk about this for ... a very long time.

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

This is exactly what I am talking about. If on a day like this, a person makes a mistake (because there were just too many things OFF that day)?

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

This is what I understood from the above discussion. Feel free to correct me:

  • God doesn't help us, only gives us means to help ourselves? (hence no miracles)*
  • God does not put more weight on us than we can bear? (can i have reference to this)

*: Depending on the answer, i will ask another question

P.S: The examples in discussions are v.simple. Life is much more complicated :)

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

correct… unless there is something that is totally beyond us and if we have exausted all resoures

enough to have no excuses

Re: Kismat / Entrapment

" On no soul doth Allah place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good deed that it earns and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray): 'Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error, our Lord! Lay not on us a burden like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector, help us against those who stand against faith. " --- Surah Al-Baqarah, Ruku 40 (2: 286) Madani. (A. Yusuf Ali Translation)

" No soul shall have a burden laid on it greater than it can bear " --- Al-Baqarah, Ayah 233

" On no soul do we place a burden greater than it can bear: before Us is a record which clearly shows the truth: they will never be wronged. " --- Surah Al-Mu'minun, Ruku 4 (23:62)