Kingdom of Heaven

I’m really looking forward to this movie coming out this summer. Didn’t even know about it till I read an article on it on the BBC. Even better, two of my favourite men are in it … Liam Neeson and Orlando Bloom. :rotato: Should be interesting to see how Muslims are portrayed in this flick.

Crusades film ‘will help Muslims’

Two Arabic actors starring in a Hollywood film about the Crusades say it will improve Western understanding of Muslim world.

Kingdom of Heaven depicts a 12th century Muslim-Christian battle for Jerusalem during the Third Crusade.

[size=2]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40977000/jpg/_40977807_kingdom203.jpg Orlando Bloom and Liam Neeson co-star in the film

Syrian actor Ghassan Massoud, who plays the Muslim leader Saladin, said the film would not reinforce old stereotypes as some had feared.

The Ridley Scott-directed movie also stars Orlando Bloom and Liam Neeson.

Big budget

Massoud also said Kingdom of Heaven would show the US the benefits of diplomacy over war in resolving Middle East crises.

“Saladin fights battles, but he also enters into dialogue. We want to show that dialogue can be much better than war,” he said.

“Today, America has overwhelming force but it is as if they don’t want to build a dialogue.”

Kingdom of Heaven, with a budget estimated at $130m (£69m), is being tipped as one of the summer’s biggest film releases.

Some religious figures have raised concerns that the film will fuel the idea of a clash of civilisations between East and West, and could increase Western animosity towards Islam.

‘Positive’ film

But Egyptian actor Khaled el-Nabawy, said: "We have Christians who think this movie is pro-Muslim and Muslims who think that this movie is pro-Christian.

"It will make both go and see the movie, which is positive for improving understanding.

“It’s time for the West to know more about us.” “We are not terrorists. We are very civilised and our history is a witness to this.” The film, which was shot in Morocco and Spain, opens in the UK on 6 May.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4426133.stm[/size]

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

I saw the trailer. Saladin has a squeaky voice. They could've found a better actor to play Saladin. Valentine Pelka would have made a great Saladin.

Jeremy Irons looks marvelous!

Kids, don't get excited: Saladin was a Kurd!

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

^^ That would have undone over 70 years of hollywood history of protraying Arab/Muslim in an unflattering light.....I was looking forward to the movie myself, until I saw the actor who would be playing Saladin....a total dissappointment, apart from his voice, he has a feminine/gay swagger....

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

I'm really looking forward to this film. Ridley Scott is taking a lot of heat from the Political/Christian right wing for being allegedly too generous in his portrayal of Muslims - apparently, the film shows Muslims being more noble than the Crusaders.

Ridley Scott's gone on the record as being unrepentant about this. I really have to watch it.

Anyone want to do a Toronto Guppy meet for this film?

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^^

Check out the article in May’s GQ (US) about this movie. In no uncertain terms, the author expresses his respect for only and truly honorable character of the Crusades. It’s a pity that the actor playing the character has a squeaky voice. :hehe:

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

Film-maker defends Crusades epic

Kingdom of Heaven, a $130m (£69m) epic directed by British film-maker Sir Ridley Scott, has its US premiere in Los Angeles on Thursday.

But it has already attracted criticism for its recreation of the 12th Century battle for Jerusalem between Christian crusaders and the Muslim leader Saladin.

With films like Blade Runner, Gladiator and Black Hawk Down, Sir Ridley has taken audiences on epic journeys into space, the past and the future.

But his latest project has uncomfortable resonances in the present, probing as it does the roots of the Middle East conflict and evoking parallels with the US-led campaign to depose Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.

Battles raging in wind-whipped deserts, ancient cities under siege and civilians cowering… Doesn’t it sound like recent news from Iraq?" wrote Alan Riding in the New York Times this week.

Given that topicality, he continues, “is this really a good time to show warring Christians and Muslims as entertainment?”

**‘Showdown’ **

Other Crusades experts go further. Dr Khaled Abou El Fadl, professor of Islamic law at the University of California, believes the film promotes the idea of “a civilisational showdown between Islamic and Christian culture”.

“In my view, it is inevitable that there will be hate crimes committed directly because of it,” he told the Herald newspaper.

Ask the director himself, however, and he defends his work to the hilt.

“I showed the film to one very important Muslim in New York, a lecturer from Columbia, and he said it was the best portrayal of Saladin he’s ever seen,” says the 67-year-old veteran.

"The characters portrayed in the film are so important in Muslim culture that I knew we had to do it absolutely properly and correctly.

"Saladin is second only to Mohammed in the Arab world ( :rolleyes: ). He was a great man and leader - a general, a politician and a religious icon."

Scott’s words are supported by Ghassan Massoud, the Syrian actor chosen to play the role.

“Saladin fights battles, but he also enters into dialogue,” he said. “We want to show that dialogue can be much better than war.”

However, some critics believe the film goes too far in its attempts to portray the Muslim side sympathetically.

In the film, the “Kingdom of Heaven” in Jerusalem ultimately collapses under a fiery assault from Saladin’s vastly superior forces.

**‘Conjecture’ **

But this only comes about after severe provocation from rogue Christian knights appalled by the religious tolerance preached by the saintly king Baldwin IV.

Saladin is seen sparing Jerusalem’s Christian defenders and uprighting a fallen crucifix.

In an earlier scene, he is also shown offering medical assistance to his Christian opponent.

“Baldwin died of virulent leprosy at 25,” says Scott. "It’s rumoured Saladin found this out and had one of his doctors visit him.

“It’s easy to say these two must have had a mutual respect for one another, so I speculate there was some kind of connection between the two.”

But some believe this view of Saladin has more to do with his depiction in Sir Walter Scott’s 1825 novel The Talisman than recorded historical fact.

One academic, Cambridge professor Jonathan Riley-Smith, has dismissed the story as “Osama bin Laden’s version of history”, claiming it will “fuel the Islamic fundamentalists”.

And another Crusades expert, University of London lecturer Dr Jonathan Phillips, believes Saladin was “rather more hard underneath” that his “soft-focus” portrayal in the film.

Scott, however, is unrepentant. “Because we’re constantly rewriting and re-examining history, you have to say that to a certain extent it is up to intelligent conjecture.”

And it is conjecture that has found favour in at least one quarter, with the Council on American-Islamic Relations declaring the film to be “a balanced and positive depiction of Islamic culture during the Crusades”.

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

It's suppose to be a real good movie. I can't wait to see it.

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

^^Ashoka, Prithivi Raj, and Shivaji are not in the movie.....would be disappointment for you, since it shows stupid arab in a not so stupid light......

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

^ Che, you entertaining monkey, just because I am not a wahabi terrorist, it doesn't make me a hindu.

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

from the May 02, 2005 edition

Finally, a film sheds Muslim stereotypes
By Gloria Goodale | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

LAS VEGAS - From Arab sheikhs and Muslim terrorists to belly dancers and
mysterious women swathed in burqas, Hollywood depictions of Muslims don’t
generally ring true. But a film opening this Friday may offer a less clichéd
view of Muslims, even as it embellishes history.

In Ridley Scott’s new medieval epic, “Kingdom of Heaven,” after Muslim
forces have retaken Jerusalem from the Christians, their leader Saladin
strides through a room full of battle debris, only to stop at the sight of a
fallen cross. He gently picks up the Christian altarpiece and sets it on a
table.

This gesture, as much as any fights or dialogue in the film, delivers a key
message about the Crusades: Muslims were human beings, as capable of honor
and faith as any Christian in that period, and by implication, says Mr.
Scott, in today’s world, as well.

"Given that [President] Bush has used the word ‘crusades,’ " understanding
the subtext of the film is important, says the British director. "It is kind
of an ambassador asking the question: ‘Why can’t we all live together?’ "

The film’s complex and human portrayal of both Christians and Muslims is
cause for a small sigh of relief among Muslim scholars and activists in the
United States, many of whom say Hollywood just can’t get it right when it
comes to portraying Middle Easterners.

“Western films usually don’t depict Arabs and Muslims as having full lives,
families, personalities, or emotions,” says William Russell Melton, author
of “The New American Expat: Thriving and Surviving Overseas in the Post-9/11
World.” In films ranging from “Aladdin” to “The Mummy” to “Rules of
Engagement,” Muslims are usually “portrayed as simplistic, illiterate, one-
dimensional, angry, hateful, untrustworthy and, of course, dirty,” he says.

Even before 9/11, says Sabiha Khan, communications director for the Council
on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) in Los Angeles, “when Muslims or Arabs
are portrayed on-screen, there are usually gross stereotypes like the
wealthy sheikh, the oppressed women, the Muslim terrorist.” After the
screening of “Kingdom of Heaven” last week, CAIR issued a national statement
of support for Scott’s film.

Much work is still to be done, say Ms. Khan and others. Political
instability in the Middle East for the better part of the past century, as
well as a fundamental lack of familiarity with the world’s 1.3 billion
Muslims, are big contributors to Hollywood’s use of cultural shorthand.
While films such as “Heaven” suggest change is afoot, the progress is slow.

“We are the most recent large minorities to come to the United States,” says
Khan, pointing to the first wave after the fall of the Shah of Iran and the
second wave after the Gulf War. Just as earlier minorities in history, such
as Italians and Irish, were stereotyped, “we are seen in popular
entertainment, just not in the right way,” she says. “This is our hazing
period.”

Historians often quibble with Hollywood when it comes to depicting cultures.
“Heaven” is no exception. Although Scott, during a trip to Las Vegas to
pitch his film to theater owners, was quick to point outthat the work is not
a documentary. He says he made every effort to get period details accurate,
but adds, “doing history in a movie is always a mixture of intelligent fact
and conjecture.”

Given the current relevance of religious warfare and historic figures, the
era of the Crusades is touchier than most, scholars say. “He’s tinkering
with history that is far more dangerous to get wrong than, say, gladiator
history,” says Thomas Asbridge, senior lecturer in medieval history, Queen
Mary, University of London. “People in the Middle East feel that the
Crusades have real resonance today,” says the author of “The First Crusade,”
pointing in particular to the modern view of Saladin. Leaders from Egypt to
Iraq see him as the avenger of Islam. “All these men are obsessed with
creating parallels with Saladin.” Saddam Hussein, he adds, “placed his own
picture on bank notes opposite Saladin and even sponsored children’s
storybooks that talked about himself as the second Saladin.”

Seriously inaccurate history is not much better than overtly negative
images, adds Mr. Asbridge. He cites a central message of the film, that both
Saladin and the doomed young Christian king of Jerusalem were trying to
coexist in peace, the “kingdom of heaven” referred to in the title. This is
nothing but “a pretty fiction,” says Asbridge. “The unfortunate reality is
that neither side was looking for lasting peace. They did use diplomacy, but
it was only part of the game. There is no question, historically, that
Saladin wanted to reconquer Jerusalem.”

Scott’s film, well-intentioned as it is, may be only a baby step in the
right direction, others say.

“The portrayal of Arabs may have gotten more complex since the days when
every terrorist in an action movie had to be an Arab,” says Kevin Hagopian,
senior lecturer in media studies at Pennsylvania State University. “But I’m
always concerned about the simplistic notion of what is positive. If Saladin
is a great warrior and a person possessed of great native wisdom and a man
of passionate religious fervor, then what we’re now talking about is not so
much a positive image as a sympathetic stereotype. At what point are
American mediamakers going to start looking at Arabs as people and not as
stereotypes, whether positive or negative?”

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

A close friend was part of the production team on this film.

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

Can he/she score free tickets for guppies? :halo:

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

Dear chegu,

I find great solace in the fact that Saladin was a Kurd. Hence, I have no problem
enjoying the movie. It was a great victory for the Kurdish nation
that one of their sons led Arabs to the Jerusalem and stalemated Franks
in the middle east.

It’s too bad that a squeaky voiced actor is playing that great statesman,
general and a warrior.

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

Actaully thats a european christain point of view. Salahudin’s benevolence towards the christains held up in Jerusalem after the 2nd opening really impressed the europeans. Infact in the first guide to christain chivalry, he was the leading example.

I'm going to see it this Saturday, will post my review from every prespective.

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I am waiting for the movie. Can't get that era of history out of my mind :)

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

I hope you guys know..that Saladin was a Kurd :p

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

So? Are Kurds not human? He was the best man for that job. After all he was picked up by great warrior Noor uddin Zangi :ra:

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figures.. arabs didn’t have the sattu for what he did.. :stuck_out_tongue:

Re: Kingdom of Heaven

Who wins the battle?