Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

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181

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

So treating Jesus and Uzair as Sons of God is not Shirk or is it ?

182

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

The reason to quote the Ayah is to state clearly the status of Ahl-e-Kitaab according to Quran. If Quran gives different status to Ahl-e-Kitaab why are you twisting the facts. If you have read clearly Quran where ever Quran mentions mushrikeen it means idolators and not Ahl-e-Kitaab.

For example 9:05 is for idolators and mushrikeen. The treatment for Ahl-e-Kitaab is mentioned in 9:29.

There is a clear distinction in Quran for mushrikeen and ahl-e-Kitaaab. If Allah wanted to give same staus to Ahl-e-Kitaab as mushrikeen, there would not have been clear ayats about them.

Your whole argument about marriage with Ahl-e-Kitaab is based on fatwa from a certain Maulana, and is not backed by Hadith or Quran. Even a fatwa has to mention the source of such decision based on Quran and Sunnah. No Maulana has the authority to declare anything haram or halal. This authority is only with Allah(sws). Where is your Ayat forbidding marriage with Ahl-e-Kitaab.

Raat k 2 bajy
183

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

If Allah does not consider them Mushrikeen who are you to question Allah.

9:30
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Here is Allah pointing to the mistakes jews and christains are comitting. Allah is not declaring them Mushrikeens, but pointing to them that they are deluded from truth.

29:45
Argue with people of the book, other than evil doers, only by means of what are better! and say, we believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you. Our God is the same as your God, and we are surrendered to Him.

2:62
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabeans,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

29:45 and 2:62 clearly distingushes them from Mushrikeens.

29:45 is even ordering you to use only soft and decent means to argue with them as they are believers of the same God as you are.

184

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

The reason why I said it was out of context bcoz this ayah doesn't talk about anywhere about marriage, I have no problem in calling jews and christians Ahle kitaab.

Quran allows muslim men to marry women from Ahle Kitaab only if they are practising their religion otherwise they are considered as athiests and non religious like majority of jew and Christian women today, very few of them are practising Judaism or Christianity.
Al-Qur'an Surah 5:
6. This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).

There is no ayah in Quran that permits muslim women to marry non-muslim men.

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

Where is the ayah which prohibits it????

186

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

I think this ayah 5:6 is a proof in itself for not allowing muslim women to marry non muslim men, it only talks about muslim men's marriage to non-muslim women.

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

May I know why you are drawing conclusion like that. Please remember the right of declaring somrthing haram only belongs tho Allah and not what you think!!!

188

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

So please show me the ayah that says muslim women can marry non muslim men, I know you can't.

Let me show you the proof from Quran that muslim women can't marry non muslim men:
Surah 60
Ayah 10. O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees, examine (and test) them: Allah knows best as to their Faith: if ye ascertain that they are Believers, then send them not back to the Unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them. But pay the Unbelievers what they have spent (on their dower), and there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them. But hold not to the guardianship of unbelieving women: ask for what ye have spent on their dowers, and let the (Unbelievers) ask for what they have spent (on the dowers of women who come over to you). Such is the command of Allah. He judges (with justice) between you. And Allah is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

Also there is a hadith concerning Zainab bint Muhammad (s.a.a.w) and Abul 'Aas bin Al Rabee'. Zainab had married Abul 'Aas bin Al Rabee' before the advent of Islam. After the true message came, Zainab accepted Islam. The Prophet (s.a.a.w) then ordered her to come over to the Muslims and to not give herself to her disbelieving husband [At-Tirmidhi].

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

Trinitarians are mushrik, and non practising Jews and Christians are athiests or irreligious, so muslim men can marry only religious jew or Christian women.

190

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

wrong

if you read in Quran only men have been given permission to marry ahley kitab women not vice versa
sura al maida chapter 5 verse 5
005.005 **
YUSUFALI: This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,-** when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).

PICKTHAL: This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them.** And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you **(lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.

SHAKIR: This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them; and the chaste from among the believing women and the chaste from among those who have been given the Book before you (are lawful for you); when you have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

and secondly if we learn quran completely
islam forbade us to marry mushrik

*sura al baqra chapter 2 verse number 221
002.221 *
YUSUFALI: *Do not marry unbelieving women *, until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

PICKTHAL: Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember.

SHAKIR: And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you; these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful.

and we know mushrik is the one who worship other then Allah
and christen and jews are mushrik by this definition

**sura al towba chapter 9 verse 31

009.031 **

YUSUFALI: They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

PICKTHAL: They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!

SHAKIR: They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one Allah only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).

191

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

**then how Allahs allows to marry in one ayat and forbade in other , it seems contradiction
but if we see on another place

sura Al imran ayat number 110
003.110 **
YUSUFALI: Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them:** among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. **
PICKTHAL: Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed it had been better for them.** Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-livers. **
SHAKIR: You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.

from this Allah gave shadat that among jews and chirstens there will be some people who believe only in Allah and will not believe jesus as son of God
and some how "dawat of Islam" wouldn't have reached them in true sense so they havn't converted to islam as well

so only muslim man can marry only that chirsten or jew girl , who believe in oneness of Allah , who believe that jesus was not sun of God and was prophet of God
so we can't marry any julie , marry etc etc

if they believe in oneness of Allah and believe that Jesus was prophet of Allah not son of Allah then you can marry her otherwise not

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

003.110 كُنْتُمْ خَيْرَ أُمَّةٍ أُخْرِجَتْ لِلنَّاسِ تَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَتَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلَوْ آمَنَ أَهْلُ** الْكِتَابِ لَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَهُمْ مِنْهُمُ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ **وَأَكْثَرُهُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ

Al-Qur'an, 003.110 (Aal-E-Imran [The Family of Imran])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
please read chapter 3 verse number 110
among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors(mushrik).

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

no only to thoes jew or christian who believe in oneness of Allah and believe that jesus was not son of God but was the prophet of God

the ayat 3.110 is in present tense so there is a chance that till qiamat there will remain some jew or christen who have true faith but some how dawat islam didn't reach them properly

194

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

Please read again with open mind the Ayahs:

9:30
The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

These Ayah was revealed for just people like you who question the wisdom of Allah (sws). People like you Allah (sws) knows very well will challenge the wisdom of Allah (sws) and would presume Allah did not know their belief in trinity when He revealed 29:45 to declare them believers.Allah is making very clear that He is very well aware of their belief in trinity and dislikes it. He points out to their mistake and send His curse on them for believing in trinity. BUT STAYS SHORT OF DECLARING THEM ALMUSHRIKEEN OR ALMUNKAREEN. In fact nowhere in Quran they have been reffered to as Almushrikeen or Almunkareen. Whenever Quran refers to jews and christains Quran adresses them as AHLEKITAAB OR YAHOOD O NISAAR.

Now after analyzing 9:30 let's go back to 29:45. let's read it again:

29:45
Argue with people of the book, other than evil doers, only by means of what are better! and say, we believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you. Our God is the same as your God, and we are surrendered to Him.

Do not presume when Allah revealed 29:45 He did not know their belief in trinity. Inspite of that Allah (sws) is declaring them believers and testifying Himself that their God is same as the God of Islam. Now let's read 2:62....

2:62
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabeans,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Allah (sws) is promising them great rewards in hereafter for their good deeds. Allah (sws) is not going to ask you if they are Almushrikeen or Almunkareen. The right to judge them solely lies with Allah who is not going to accept any intercession on judgement day except when He will allow Himself.

If Allah (sws) has given jews and christains special status and never called them Mushrikeen or Munkareen whoare you or your mullah to take this task in your hands ? How can Allah give them great rewards in the hereafter if they are mushrikeen or munkareen, as Allah has made very clear several times that these two kind of people only deserve Allah's wrath.

There is no contradiction in this matter. It's all very clear if you use logic and reason.

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

Again you are committing same logically fallacy. Why don't you see the positive thing being said about them. Quran is testifying to the fact that there are people amongst them who have faith and are believers inspite of their belief in trinity as all christains believe in that.

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

The above mentioned Ayah refers to pagans and not AhleKitaab. You can go and even ask your favourite mullah about it also.

Same goes for AQbdul Aas bim Rabee. He was a pagan and not Ahlekitaab.

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

so you are clearly denying Quran although quran is saying only some have faith and other are fasiq
and similarly in Quran in sura tawba Allah had said that saying trinity or God have son is a biggest abuse (gali ) for him
and the one who use to abuse God according to you are believers to whom Quran is using word fasiq

my brother you are clearly rejecting quran here

my humble advice to you , is to read ayat 3.110 slowly and complete and try to analyse your self
i know i am not good enough to make you understand but i hope that you can yourself judge
Allah had used the word ahley kitab (for thoes who are today called as jew or christen ) i know you agree with this
similarly Allah had said that some of them are momin (believers) that is they believe in oneness of Allah and thoes who worship other then Allah and say jesus son of God are fasiq and they are most in ahley kitab and Allah had allowed muslim men to marry ahley kitab women but forbade us to marry anyone who worship other then Allah or say jesus is son of God
and Allah call them fasiq /mushrik

one thing more if you donot take quran collectively and consider each ayat separte then you will fall in to the trap of condradictions found by many anti islam persons
to clearly understand each ayat of quran you have to understand all quran

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

Please enlighten me how am I doing that. Please read my reply to Hareem where I have clearly explained my position on Surah Tawbah 9:30 and 9:31, which is based on logic. With your exlaination how will you explain 29:45 and 2:62. To judge them on their belief on trinity is not my job or your job. Please leave this matter for Allah (sws) to decide on the judgement day.

Here we are debating a more wordly problem of interfaith marriages. I am just pointing out to you guys when are referrring to verses meant for pagans and idolators and associating them with jews and christains.

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

one thing more if you donot take quran collectively and consider each ayat separte then you will fall in to the trap of condradictions found by many anti islam persons
to clearly understand each ayat of quran you have to understand all quran
[/QUOTE]

Exactly the point I am trying to make. Read my answer to Hareem wherein i have tried to relate Surah Tawbah with 29:45 an 2:62. It's you who is taking Al Emran and Tawbah in isolation....

I think you are denying Quran by denying 29:45 and 2:62...

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Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

combine the verse , you are telling
9:30 9:31, 29:45 , 2:62 and 3:110
and then tell me what comes to your mind
plz let me know and also please let me know what you translate the word fasiq
thanx
i think this will make you clear