:)..Thanks for posting!
One cannot doubt the Character of any person who Allah's Prophet (PBUH) personally prayed for by name to Allah(SWT) that he be granted hiddaya before He actually converted...........some of this hate for Umar (RA) actually comes from jealousy...:)
TO IBE SIDDIQUE
Dear Brother you have spend your time in exagrating stories:
I prefer to speak from Quran:
If your claim is athentic, why in Verse Mubahila, Prophet Left Umer to bring him in five Personalities ( Mohammad(pbuh), Ali (as), Fatima(as), Hussan (as) and Hussain (as).
Similar he had been threatened so many times in Quran to not to speak loudely in front of Prophet Mohammad(pbu).
Read and research at last you find that Umer had destroy Islam and Prophet Holy Family how been killed in Prisons after tought life............
Do not fold your eyes on truth.
Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) is city of knowledge and Ali (as) is the gate.
Umer is neither city nor gate.
those who do not gave knowledge they are called illitrate .
if you want to see history from your books , about disobey and giving tension to Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) .... you are most welcome.
:)..Thanks for posting!
One cannot doubt the Character of any person who Allah's Prophet (PBUH) personally prayed for by name to Allah(SWT) that he be granted hiddaya before He actually converted...........some of this hate for Umar (RA) actually comes from jealousy...:)
There is the "Hadith of Creation," which has been narrated in different ways. Imam Bin Ahmad Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, Mir Seyyed Ali Hamadani in Mawaddatu'l-Qurba, Ibn Maghazili Shafi'i in Manaqib, and Dailami in Firdaus have quoted the Prophet as saying:
"I and Ali were created of the same Divine Light 14,000 years before Adam was created. From the loins of the Prophet Adam and through his holy progeny, the Light was inherited by Abdu'l-Muttalib, and from him it was divided and inherited by Abdullah, (father of the Prophet) and Abu Talib, (father of Ali). I was granted prophethood, and Ali was granted the caliphate."
IF you like to see only books then read the above hadith which belongs to your sect as well.
I cant find Umer in above hadith if he is greater then Imam Ali in Attributes..
Dear Moderator – I am responding to the thread that you had locked up – The thread starter had clearly ‘attacked’ Hz. Umar (ra) and did need a proper response – which I think I have attempted to do.
The Prophet said to him: “Ali, write down: In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate.”
“This is something which is being written between us and you, Muhammad,” Suhayl ibn Amir intervened. “Therefore begin with something which we accept and write: ‘In your name, O God.’”
The Prophet said to the Commander of the Faithful: “Remove what you have written and write: ‘In your name, O God.’”
“If it was not for the fact that I obey you, O Apostle of Allah, I would not remove: ‘In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate,’” the Commander of the Faithful replied. Then he removed it and wrote: “In your name, O God.”
Then the Prophet told him: “Write: This is what the Apostle of Allah and Suhayl ibn Amir have agreed upon.”
However, Suhayl ibn Amir again intervened, saying: “If I accepted this description of you in this document which being made between us, I would have admitted Prophethood to you; otherwise by agreeing to that I would be witnessing against myself or at least expressing with my tongue. Remove this name and write: ‘This is what Muhammad ibn Abdullah has agreed upon.’”
“Indeed, by Allah, he is truly the Apostle of Allah despite your arrogance,” said the Commander of the Faithful (Ali).
“Write his name as the condition which must be carried out,” retorted Suhayl. “Suhayl, woe on you, cease from your obstinate behavior,” the Commander of the Faithful said to him.
“Remove it, Ali!” the Prophet ordered him.
“Apostle of Allah,” he said, “my hand will not move to remove your name from association with Prophethood.” (Kitab al-Irshad, by Shaykh Mufid, p.81)
Now do you agree the Hz. Ali (ra) refused to obey the command of the Prophet (saw)? I know the reason why he did it!
Let’s see what you have to say.
If your claims is accurate , then please tell me why did Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) refuse several time to give her daugher hand into Umer hand.
Therefore you need more study my dear brother.
May Allah Guide you.
Well Hz. Ali (ra) married his daughter from Hz. Fatimah (ra) Hz. Umm Kulthum bint Ali (ra) to Hz. Umar (ra)!! Check out narrations of your imams from your own books!!!!
[QUOTE]
May Allah Guide you.
[/QUOTE]
Ameen and keep me on the straight path
My dear use a bit of brain and human logic about this matter:
when Abubakr and Umar asked the holy Prophet[saww] for his daughter, Lady Fatima[sa]'s hand the Prophet[saww] replied she is too young to marry.
Mishkat Shareef
If this is correct then** think rationally over the fact that, Umme Kulthum [sa] whose mother was too young to marry these people, marries these same personalities, does this make sense**?
The wife of Umar ibn al-Khattāb was Umm Kulthum binte Abu Bakr, whose mother was Asmaa binte Umays (she was a sister of Mohammad ibn Abu Bakr and a stepdaughter of Ali ibn Abu Talib),… on the bases of which she has been uncounted amongst the daughters of Ali ibn Abu Talib just as he has deemed Mohammad ibn Abu Bakr as his own son from the lineage of Abu Bakr-------------------- **One of the son of Umm Kulthum binte Abu Bakr was Zayd ibn Umar ibn al-Khattāb **whose mention is found in history.
The reality is that Sayyida Umme Kalthum (as) married on only one occasion and that was to Aun bin Ja’far. The Umme Kalthum that married Umar ibn al Khattab in 17 Hijri was someone else… The wife of Umar died during the reign of Mu’awiya bin Hind, whilst Umme Kalthum the daughter of Sayyida Fatima (as) was witness to the tragedy of Kerbala and died after 62 Hijri.[3]](http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/umme_kulthum/en/chap14.php)
Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)
subhanAllah people are calling the companions of prophet muhammed(saw) evil..... can it get any worse?
subhanAllah people are calling the companions of prophet muhammed(saw) evil..... can it get any worse?
I BELIVE YOU NEED TO STUDY ABOUT THE COMPANIONS .....
WHAT ARE THEY
WHO ARE THEY?
Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)
ive studied enough about the companions of prophet muhammed ( saw) :) what they are and who they are? they the ones who stood by our prophet (saw) in hardship. and whats the whole grudge against umar (ra) about?
Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)
***The Second Caliph, Umar (634-644 A.C.)
"God has placed truth upon Umar's tongue and heart. (Hadith)"
'Umar's Life
'Umar's Caliphate
After taking charge of his office, 'Umar spoke to the Muslims of Medina:
"...O people, you have some rights on me which you can always claim. One of your rights is that if anyone of you comes to me with a claim, he should leave satisfied. Another of your rights is that you can demand that I take nothing unjustly from the revenues of the State. You can also demand that... I fortify your frontiers and do not put you into danger. It is also your right that if you go to battle I should look after your families as a father would while you are away. "O people, remain conscious of God, forgive me my faults and help me in my task. Assist me in enforcing what is good and forbidding what is evil. Advise me regarding the obligations that have been imposed upon me by God..."
The most notable feature of 'Umar's caliphate was the vast expansion of Islam. Apart from Arabia, Egypt, Iraq, Palestine and Iran also came under the protection of the Islamic government. But the greatness of 'Umar himself lies in the quality of his rule. He gave a practical meaning to the Qur'anic injunction: ***
***O you who believe, stand out firmly for justice as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it concerns rich or poor, for God can best protect both." [4:135]
Once a woman brought a claim against the Caliph 'Umar. When 'Umar appeared on trial before the judge, the judge stood up as a sign of respect toward him. 'Umar reprimanded him, saying, "This is the first act of injustice you did to this woman!"
He insisted that his appointed governors live simple lives, keep no guard at their doors and be accessible to the people at all times, and he himself set the example for them. Many times foreign envoys and messengers sent to him by his generals found him resting under a palm tree or praying in the mosque among the people, and it was difficult for them to distinguish which man was the Caliph. He spent many a watchful night going about the streets of Medina to see whether anyone needed help or assistance. The general social and moral tone of the Muslim society at that time is well-illustrated by the words of an Egyptian who was sent to spy on the Muslims during their Egyptian campaign. He reported:
"I have seen a people, every one of whom loves death more than he loves life. They cultivate humility rather than pride. None is given to material ambitions. Their mode of living is simple... Their commander is their equal. They make no distinction between superior and inferior, between master and slave. When the time of prayer approaches, none remains behind..."
'Umar gave his government an administrative structure. Departments of treasury, army and public revenues were established. Regular salaries were set up for soldiers. A popuation census was held. Elaborate land surveys were conducted to assess equitable taxes. New cities were founded. The areas which came under his rule were divided into provinces and governors were appointed. New roads were laid, canals were lug and wayside hotels were built. Provision was made for he support of the poor and the needy from public funds. He defined, by precept and by example, the rights and privileges of non-Muslims, an example of which is the following contract with the Christians of Jerusalem:
"This is the protection which the servant of God, 'Umar, the Ruler of the Believers has granted to the people of Eiliya [Jerusalem]. The protection is for their lives and properties, their churches and crosses, their sick and healthy and for all their coreligionists. Their churches shall not be used for habitation, nor shall they be demolished, nor shall any injury be done to them or to their compounds, or to their crosses, nor shall their properties be injured in any way. There shall be no compulsion for these people in the matter of religion, nor shall any of them suffer any injury on account of religion... Whatever is written herein is under the covenant of God and the responsibility of His Messenger, of the Caliphs and of the believers, and shall hold good as long as they pay Jizya [the tax for their defense] imposed on them."
Those non-Muslims who took part in defense together with the Muslims were exempted from paying Jizya, and when the Muslims had to retreat from a city whose non-Muslim citizens had paid this tax for their defense, the tax was returned to the non-Muslims. The old, the poor and the disabled of Muslims and non-Muslims alike were provided for from the public treasury and from the Zakat funds.
'Umar's Death
In 23 A.H., when Umar returned to Medina from Hajj;, he raised his hands and prayed,
"O God! I am advanced in years, my bones are weary, my powers are declining, and the people for whom I am responsible have spread far and wide. Summon me back to Thyself, my lord!" Some time later, when 'Umar went to the mosque to lead a prayer, a Magian named Abu Lulu Feroze, who had a grudge against 'Umar on a personal matter, attacked him with a dagger and stabbed him several times. Umar reeled and fell to the ground. When he learned that the assassin was a Magian, he sid, "Thank God he is not a Muslim."
'Umar died in the first week of Muharram, 24 A.H., and was buried by the side of the Holy Prophet (peace be on him).***
healtymind Lucky you that I have some time on hand
All that you written is BS!
Let’s get to serious discussion about this issue.
Ahlel Bayt Articles A Comprehensive Rebuttal of Answering-Ansar’s Article on Umm Kulthoom’s Nikah
Please go through the above link carefully as it has rebutted thoroughly and proved beyond doubt that Hz. Umar (ra) did in fact marry the daughter of Hz. Ali (ra) and Hz. Fatimah (ra)- I know how difficult this for you to swallow.
Truth is always very bitter for the deniers! 
Take it down slowly, bit by bit.
Introduction to Rebuttal
Response to Chapter 1 entitled “Introduction”
Response to Chapter 2 entitled “The alleged marriage of Umar ibn al Khattab to
Hadhrath Umme Kalthum binte Fatima (as) from the texts of Ahl’ul Sunnah”
Response to Chapter 3 entitled “Our objections to the Sunni traditions”
Kuff and Umm Kulthoom’s Marriage
Response to Chapter 4 entitled “The marriage from the annals of the Salaf Kingpins”
Response to Chapter 5 Entitled “Elucidation to the truth”
A Different Umm Kulthoom?
Response to Chapter 6 Entitled: “Afriki’s failed efforts to get the Shi’a to accept a Sunni narration”
Response to Chapter 7 Entitled “The authenticity of Furu al Kafi”
Response to Chapter 8 Entitled “The first Shi’a tradition”
Response to Chapter 9 entitled “The second Shi’a tradition”
Response to Chapter 10 Entitled “The third and fourth Shi’a tradition”
Response to Chapter 11 Entitled “Fifth Shi’a tradition”
Response to Chapter 12 Entitled “Offspring from this alleged marriage”
Response to Chapter 13 Entitled “The comments of Shi’a Ulema”
Conclusion to Rebuttal
UPDATE: Al-Islam.org Admits that Umar Married Ali’s Daughter.
As to the issue of marriage I believe it is also wrong. But if anyone wants to use this kind of events against more basic idea he must know that first of all it was Omar himself who married Ali and Fatemeh’s (AS) daughter, Ume Kulsum. Secondly When Omar asked Imam’s (AS) permission to marry her, Imam (AS) refused and said she is too young for marrying him. Omar swore " wa Allah-e I do not seek her for what you may think, I seek her because I heard the holy prophet (SA) saying 'get closer to me by being close to my family. I want to be closer to him by marrying his granddaughter." Whatever his true intentions were - perhaps a political gesture for the chilly political climate of the time when
everybody knew that Ali (AS) did not let them to be present in the Salah to Fatemeh’s (SA) body and her burial, or making confusion among the public and generation to come, or perhaps a call of conscience of guilt for what he has done to Fatemeh (SA)- Imam (AS) must have had good reasons for agreeing to the marriage.
'Aalim Network QR] Silence of Imam Ali (AS)](http://www.al-islam.org/Organizations/Aalimnetwork/msg00166.html)*
**Healthymind ** read the above where a Shia research scholar agrees that Hz. Ali (ra) married his daughter from Hz. Fatimah (ra) to Hz. Umar Al Khattab (ra) and that her name was Umm Kulthum bint Ali Abi Talib!!!
Please don’t come back with just mere emotional denials.
If you want to debate - come with facts and not your emotions.
I know that reading the above is going to give you a good headache.
subhanAllah people are calling the companions of prophet muhammed(saw) evil..... can it get any worse?
some companions of the Prophet were indeed very evil and did horrible things
but some people intentionally ignore the merits of Sayyidna Umar [ra] and try to include him in that category thats why this thread was started.
all these are no more than guesses,
bottomline is that Ali [as] married his daughter to Umar [ra] and even more than that the degree of involvement of Ali in Umar’s govt is significantly more than with the govt of uthman or abu bakr[ra].
Umar[ra] also had the highest stipends from Bayt ul mal for Prophet[pbuh] 2 grandsons i.e the sons of Ali [as].
Something you would not expect from someone who allegedly kicked Ali’s pregnant wife to death !
Brother** Das Reich **For a 12er Shia scholar to accept the above even though very grudgingly/stingily shows that the ‘facts ‘ and history are heavily tilted in Hz. Umar (ra) being the son in law of Hz. Ali and Hz. Fatimah (May Allah be pleased with them both) – And this is tough for the 12er Shia to stomach.
And there are a lot Shia narrations attributed to the Imams (raa) confirming the facts. But the denying goes on. Umar (ra) son in law of of Hz. Ali and Hz. Fatimah???!!!! Now that is difficult for 12er Shias to swallow.
Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)
^ bro I would prefer if you use the term "12er sect" even though in todays world unfortunately the 2 terms are almost synonymous
some companions of the Prophet were indeed very evil and did horrible things
May Allah protect us from your evil!
Destroyed are those who compromise on Aqeedah, which is extracted from the Quran and the Sunnah, in favor of adultered history.
Your example is like that of this man in this popular narration:
[QUOTE]
Saad bin Abi Waqas (may Allah be pleased with him) one day heard a man grumpling; when he listened closely to what he was saying he realized he was abusing Ali, Talhah and Zubair (may Allah be pleased with them). He told him to stop, but he would not listen and continued. Finally, Saad bin Abi Waqas (may Allah be pleased with him) lost his temper, and said if he did not control his tongue he would put a curse on him. Arrogantly the man told him that he was arrogating powers to himself and he asked him if he thought he was a Prophet..
Listening to the man’s bitter words, he merely turned away. He went, made his ablutions for prayer and offered two supererogatory units of prayer. Then he entreated Allah Almighty:
“Oh Allah you know that this man is abusing men of purity, with whom You Yourself are Pleased because of their goodness. Surely You will not approve of theses abuses. May this man be a lesson for such other men.”
He had barely done with his supplications when people saw that a raging she-camel had broken away from the rope which tethered her, and leaving her home had entered in the midst of a crowd of people. It seemed as if she was looking for a particular person. In seconds she had the head of a person in her bloodthirsty jaws and was shaking it violently from side to side. Finally his neck broke and in no time he had become the prey of death. People were stunned in silence. The dead man was non other than the one who had been abusing the noble companion a few minutes earlier, and against whom Saad bin Abi Waqas (may Allah be pleased with him) appeared. He had indeed become a lesson for people.
[/QUOTE]
some companions of the Prophet were indeed very evil and did horrible things
but some people intentionally ignore the merits of Sayyidna Umar [ra] and try to include him in that category thats why this thread was started.
by companions I meant sahaba...
Amazing to c the lengths ppl like Ibn Sadique go to defend Khalifa Umar. E.G. he compares Khalifa sahab's refusal and clear disobedience of Rasool Akram (s.a.w.w.) (which made the prophet angry and made even Ibne Abbas cry, all according to the great Sahi Bukhari) to Imam Ali's unwillingness to write a statement which is against fundamental belief of Islam!
-Did the prophet condemn or became angry with Imam Ali ath the hudaybia treaty as he did with Khalifa Umar in the event of thursday? (i think the earlier is what Mr Ibne Sadique may b trying to portray)
-Imam Ali's action was infact a great one since only the prophet of Allah had the right to address himself as 'Mohammad Bin Abdullah' as the whole deen of Allah with its kalima e shadat that we read revolves around the prophet and the Almighty. Hence its only Allah (swt) or his apostle who have to authority to alter/change it. This actually shows the solidness and strength of Imam Ali's emaan, subhan Allah!
Can any shia provide answer to this???
TO IBE SIDDIQUE
Dear Brother you have spend your time in exagrating stories:
I prefer to speak from Quran:
If your claim is athentic, why in Verse Mubahila, Prophet Left Umer to bring him in five Personalities ( Mohammad(pbuh), Ali (as), Fatima(as), Hussan (as) and Hussain (as).
Similar he had been threatened so many times in Quran to not to speak loudely in front of Prophet Mohammad(pbu).
Read and research at last you find that Umer had destroy Islam and Prophet Holy Family how been killed in Prisons after tought life............
Do not fold your eyes on truth.
Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) is city of knowledge and Ali (as) is the gate.
Umer is neither city nor gate.
those who do not gave knowledge they are called illitrate .
if you want to see history from your books , about disobey and giving tension to Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) .... you are most welcome.
Are you illitrate?