Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

They live in a bubble.

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Look you dont have any historical basis for your claims, if so reproduce it here. And please do mention the period the sub continent remained united in Mauryan as well as Gupta Empires.

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Here you are. Take a look at the Mauryan empire under Ashoka.

Maurya Empire during Ashoka 265 BCE

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Oh I see, so Afghanistan, South Eastern Iran, Bhutan and Nepal are all a part of India now because the Maurya empire once controlled these areas…

You should let the Afghans and Iranians know they are occupying Indian territory.

Likewise, according to the map, the southern tip of India and Sri Lanka, and the entire northern half of Kashmir were NOT a part of India!

Really you people are becoming ridiculous now. What point are you trying to make. When we talk about Kashmir, we refer to the modern state of Kashmir, and the modern state of India. This reference to some India of long ago is imagined. India was ruled throughout by independent states. There was never one unified Indian nation. Hell the concept of nation-state is a contemporary one. Maurya’s would have look at you perplexed if you tried to explain to them the modern concept of a nation-state. The only reason the Maurya had an empire (as opposed to a nation-state) was because the had an Army to ensure their sovereignty over different regional rulers.

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Some would say we are in a bubble. Though not nearly as bubilicious as in 2000

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

I know that Mauryan empire existed and this is where the concept of Akhand Bharat comes from, now please do educate us of its time line as to how long it existed.

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Kashmir has not remained part of India for most of its history.

Anyways before Mauryans, Darius of Persia ruled most areas of the subcontinent, I believe they can also lay claim on the areas where he ruled… :snooty:

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

I had no idea Arabs spoke English & named India in English. Seriously?

[quote]
There are several kingdom in Mahabharat itself, the general idea of Kingdom never impeded Hindu understanding of Nation. Vedic geography includes land from Hindukush to Vindhyachal and post vedic till Kishkindha in Tamil Nadu. So in Hindu mind there was never any doubt about concept of Nation ever.
[/quote]

Let us stick to the facts & not hindu mythology. Btw, Hindukush actually means destruction of hindus and it was called that by Afghan/central Asian invaders.

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Lel anybody that takes Hindu mythology seriously and. Tries to propagate their nationalistic agenda needs to see a psychiatrist, their delusions are no different from those of Zaid Hamid's

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

This map shows Ashoka's empire as of 265 BCE. The reason for posting it was because another poster wanted to know the expanse of the Mauryan empire. No one is saying that Afghanistan and Iran is Indian territory today, however its a historical fact that these areas were part of the Mauryan empire.

As far as I am concerned, 265 BCE is meaningless today. The area that India controls today is what is part of India, and that includes J&K.

New Jammu Kashmir govt pleads Modi to talk to Pakistan/Hurriyat

Here comes trouble (for indian Neta).. the new Jammu govt is already asking Indian PM modi to talk to Hurriyat’s leadership and so with Pakistan. I’m sure hindu extremists wont like it. Does that mean a possible continuation of Indian army rule in the state?

New Srinagar govt urges talks with Pakistan, Hurriyat - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

New Srinagar govt urges talks with Pakistan, Hurriyat

JAWED NAQVI UPDATED about 16 hours ago

[TABLE=“class: media media–stretch one-whole palm–one-whole, width: 694”]

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, left and Peoples Democratic Party Mufti Mohammed Sayeed stand for India’s national anthem before the later was sworn in as the chief minister of Jammu and Kashmir state in Jammu, India, Sunday, March 1, 2015. — AP

NEW DELHI: Jammu and Kashmir’s new ruling coalition sworn in on Sunday has nudged Prime Minister Narendra Modi to resume talks with Pakistan and Kashmiri stakeholders, including the Hurriyat Conference.
Mr Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Kashmir’s People’s Democratic Party nominated 11 and 12 ministers respectively who took the oath of office under the watch of Chief Minister Mufti Muhammad Sayeed, founder and head of PDP. Mr Modi and his senior party members were present at the ceremony.
Know more: PDP-BJP alliance could be a ‘paradigm shift’ in Kashmir’s history: Mufti
“The (Modi) government has recently initiated several steps to normalise the relationship with Pakistan,” the coalition’s common minimum programme noted apparently referring to the coming visit of Indian Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar to Islamabad on Tuesday.
“The coalition government will seek to support and strengthen the approach and initiatives taken by the government to create a reconciliatory environment and build stakes for all in the peace and development within the sub-continent.”
Mr Sayeed was previously quoted as saying that peace dialogue with Pakistan was a non-negotiable precondition for his agreeing to join a coalition with the BJP, which has got its first chance to sit in the treasury benches.
Also read: BJP coalition form government in Indian-held Kashmir
Ties with Pakistan would be pursued “by taking confidence building measures such as enhancing people to people contact on both sides of the LoC, encouraging civil society exchanges, taking travel, commerce, trade and business across the LoC to the next level and opening new routes across all three regions to enhancing connectivity”.
It took weeks of hard bargaining on both sides to agree on a common minimum programme, which probably explains nuanced and indirect messages. For example, a proposal to hold talks with Hurriyat was couched in verbiage.
“The earlier NDA government led by Shri Atal Behari Vajpayee had initiated a dialogue process with all political groups, including the Hurriyat Conference, in the spirit of “Insaaniyat, Kashmiriyat aur Jamhooriyat”, the BJP-PDP document noted.
“Following the same principles, the coalition government will facilitate and help initiate a sustained and meaningful dialogue with all internal stakeholders, which will include all political groups irrespective of their ideological views and predilections. This dialogue will seek to build a broad-based consensus on resolution of all outstanding issues of J&K.”
The reference to outstanding issues is understood to be in keeping with Mr Sayeed’s preferred solutions. He had previously praised former Pakistan ruler Pervez Musharraf, Indian leaders Manmohan Singh and Atal Behari Vajpayee. They had all raised prospects of resolving the Kashmir dispute and had even come close to an agreement.
Indian military occupation of Kashmir and its excesses have been a major theme with Mr Sayeed’s constituents. It found expression in a roadmap to dilute if not repeal the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) which gives troops immunities from civilian prosecution.
“The situation in the state has improved vastly and to build greater public confidence in its sustainability, people of the state must be able to get the peace and normalcy dividend,” the agreement said.
“In this context, the coalition government will thoroughly review the security situation in the state with a view to examine the need and desirability of all the special laws being applied to the state in view of the situation which is improving.
“While both parties have historically held a different view on the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) and the need for it in the state at present, as part of the agenda for governance of this alliance, the coalition government will examine the need for de-notifying ‘disturbed areas’. This, as a consequence, would enable the Union Government to take a final view on the continuation of AFSPA in these areas.”
And finally the most stubborn sticking point for the coalition seemed to be the BJP’s existential commitment to the repeal of Article 370 of the Indian constitution that gives Kashmir a special status with its own constitution. Here too Mr Sayeed appears to have extracted a concession from his ideological rivals turned allies.
“While recognising the different positions and appreciating the perceptions BJP and PDP have on the constitutional status of J&K considering the political and legislative realities, the present position will be maintained on all the constitutional provisions pertaining to J&K including the special status in the Constitution of India,” the parties agreed.
Both sides agreed to help the return of Kashmiri Pandits back to their homes but it seemed to need patient work. “Protecting and fostering ethnic and religious diversity by ensuring the return of Kashmiri Pandits with dignity based on their rights as state subjects and reintegrating as well as absorbing them in the Kashmiri milieu. Reintegration will be a process that will start within the state as well as the civil society, by taking the community into confidence,” the agreement said.
Published in Dawn, March 2nd, 2015

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

In 265 BCE we assumed a territory was a part of an empire if that empires army was posted within the boundaries of that territory. Today, we assume we are a bit more nuanced. We believe the will of the people determines who has a right to rule. Since India's claim is enforced through occupation by the Indian army, we dont consider India's claim over Kashmir as valid, as it contradicts our fundamental understanding of a modern nation state. It seems India hasnt changed very much from 265 BCE.

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

A Pakistani talking about “will of the people” sounds a bit hypocritical given that Pakistan is not giving the same right to the people in Balochistan. Can’t talk from both sides of your mouth, my friend.

Why Pakistan Is Embarrassed to Talk About Balochistan*|*Malik Siraj Akbar

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Balochistan joined Pakistan, Kashmir did not.

None the less, you are right. I will admit that Balochistan should be independent as long as you can admit that that Kashmir should be independant from India… Deal ?

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Kashmir also joined India, since the Maharaja signed the letter of accession. But thats topic for another debate.

For India, Kashmir acts as a buffer. Without Kashmir, its easy for Pakistan to send intruders (army or otherwise) into India. So even though I might favor letting the will of the people rule in Kashmir, strategically its not in India's best interest. That is the reason I don't think that will ever happen.

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Sorry buddy. The wishes of “Maharajahs” was never a criteria for joining one country or the other. If it were, then the Nizam of Hyderabad, who never joined India, but who’s territory (Hyderabad Deccan) was annexed by force by the Indians, would still be ruler of Hyderabad and it would not be a part of India. Indians cant just make up their own rules you see, that’s not how it works.
Also, Nehru and others in the Indian govt only accepted the Maharajas asscesion pending a formal referandum to ascertain the wishes of the People of kashmir.. Guess how that turned out… :smiley:

I dont care about “buffers,” I dont care if its in India’s best interest, it has nothing to do with whats in YOUR best interest, if the Kashmiri people never choose to be Indian, the who the hell are you to force that upon them? I wish the British had said the same thing, that Indian independence is not in the best interest of the British. You people would have been LIVID!

Indians and their double standards… :rolleyes:
Atleast stop pretending your an honest country and own up to such two-faced tactics.

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Well, Pakistan also tried to annex Kashmir by force. Guess how that turned out :smiley:

Ok, if you say so :hypo:

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

Weak logic… its easy to debate you people.

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

This is an endless debate, and I don't want to prolong the agony :D

The bottom line is that the UN plebiscite was to be held only after Pakistan vacates all of Kashmir. Pakistan has not done so. So technically the plebiscite is not yet due.

Moreover, under terrorist pressure the Hindu pandits have been driven out of Kashmir. Any plebiscite held now will not be fair. The UN plebiscite is therefore irrelevant.

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

For your own sake, I suggest you educate yourself in order to avoid future embarrassment.
Good day to you.