Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

[the_kaur]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@Shamraz_Khan

Glad you agree there was no such thing called "India". In fact, whats known as India was never united until British arrived on the subcontinent & even then there were many city/states/kingdoms that were allowed to self rule. India as we known it today is less than 70 years old...where Kashmir has been around for 5000+ years.

India is english name to Bharat/Aryavart. There are several kingdom in Mahabharat itself, the general idea of Kingdom never impeded Hindu understanding of Nation. Vedic geography includes land from Hindukush to Vindhyachal and post vedic till Kishkindha in Tamil Nadu. So in Hindu mind there was never any doubt about concept of Nation ever.
The idea of region of Kashmir comes only after Maharishi Kashyap, Region of Punjab predates Kashmir by another 1000 years and was called Saptasindu, land of seven rivers.

@Southie

Who was Raja Bharat in Mahabharata? I assume this is different from Ramas younger brother of Ayodhya fame?

Son of Dushyant and Shankuntala

[ajazali]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@the_kaur

India was called BharatVarsha, the word Bharat comes from from Raja Bharat mentioned in Mahabharat. Another name used is Aryavart, Land of Aryans. So both political and social idea of India existed before Arabs :)

Kashmir, on the other hand was named after Maharishi Kashyap, who lived there. Since Bharat/Aryavart predated Kashyap

India existed before Kashmir.

Aryavart, Land of Aryans is mentioned in mahabharat?

[the_kaur]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@ajazali

Aryavart, Land of Aryans is mentioned in mahabharat?

Yes and also in Ramayan, Ramayan predates Mahabharat.

Aryan means person of noble birth, so Aryavart means land of noble people, it has no Nazi type racial connotation.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@the_kaur

No. India is older than Kashmir by some 5000 years atleast.

really where did that India exist?

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@the_kaur

India is english name to Bharat/Aryavart. There are several kingdom in Mahabharat itself, the general idea of Kingdom never impeded Hindu understanding of Nation. Vedic geography includes land from Hindukush to Vindhyachal and post vedic till Kishkindha in Tamil Nadu. So in Hindu mind there was never any doubt about concept of Nation ever. The idea of region of Kashmir comes only after Maharishi Kashyap, Region of Punjab predates Kashmir by another 1000 years and was called Saptasindu, land of seven rivers.

Son of Dushyant and Shankuntala

All stories, but even in Mahabharata its more of fights between different countries as compared to being one country...You can study the last 3000 years of documented history and find out how many years we had a united India. Seriously in the past I used to think that history knowledge of Pakistanis is bad...

[ajazali]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@the_kaur

Yes and also in Ramayan, Ramayan predates Mahabharat.

Aryan means person of noble birth, so Aryavart means land of noble people, it has no Nazi type racial connotation.

How about the possibility of Aryans made this change after conquering the India?

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@ajazali

How about the possibility of Aryans made this change after conquering the India?

there was no India, the area has always remained divided...only brief periods of unification during Ashoka, Gupta period, later on most of subcontinent was united under the muslims.

[ajazali]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@Ali_Syed

there was no India, the area has always remained divided...only brief periods of unification during Ashoka, Gupta period, later on most of subcontinent was united under the muslims.

also I am surprised by the term used here India the Land of Aryans, as if aryans were native.

[Southie]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@Ali_Syed

there was no India, the area has always remained divided...only brief periods of unification during Ashoka, Gupta period, later on most of subcontinent was united under the muslims.

Dushyant and Shakuntala would have a bone to pick with you.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@ajazali

also I am surprised by the term used here India the Land of Aryans, as if aryans were native.

The history taught in India is the other side of the coin, we use religion to form our identity and they use nationhood. I opened a thread once on the tribes living on our part of the world in Mahabharata time. http://www.paklinks.com/gs/indo-pak-history/576722-western-tribes-of-mahabharata.html

[Jack_Sparrow]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

Did you find anything 'Indian' in kashmir? Frankly speaking, Kashmir is more like Pakistan than India and it should have been part of Pakistan from the get go.

Also, the way you are dismissing the 'misguided' youth tells me, you never really interacted with Kashmiris. I have not found anyone from Kashmir that is pro-India, only their degree of hatred varies.

Its been 67 years since partition - until when are you going to keep harping the same tune about what should have happened during partition ? Partition is over, the boundaries are drawn. In the current geo-political situation, no one can force India to vacate Kashmir. Kashmiris will keep hating India as long as they have support from the other side. Once the support for terrorism stops, things will normalize to the pre-1989 situation.

[Southie]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@ajazali

also I am surprised by the term used here India the Land of Aryans, as if aryans were native.

Aryaputra Karna

Case closed

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@Southie

Aryaputra Karna

Case closed

Our Friend Southie was not even part of the Muslim Kingdom... (Cholas :D)...

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@Southie

Aryaputra Karna

Case closed

now how would the poor guy understand what you are implying here? :hmmm:

have you by any chance hanging around with @Monk these days? :snooty:

[the_kaur]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@Ali_Syed

really where did that India exist?

Conceptually, Since Hindus learnt writing they knew about geography of their place, from hindukush to Vindhyachal.
Arabs themselves for not that literate to teach these pagans anything when they started trading.

@Ali_Syed

All stories, but even in Mahabharata its more of fights between different countries as compared to being one country...You can study the last 3000 years of documented history and find out how many years we had a united India. Seriously in the past I used to think that history knowledge of Pakistanis is bad...

You read Mahabharat to come to this conclusion? If not, I can understand your statement here :)
Read it, there is nothing religious about it, it is better than Game of thrones anyway :)

@ajazali

How about the possibility of Aryans made this change after conquering the India?

Incidentally, there is no writing predating Aryan word, Hindus don't remember any such thing as migration, may be they migrated when they were still not homo-sapiens. Because not a single writing of Hinduism which is very old does record anything as great migration. Vedas are supposed to transferred from one generation to another by memory before writing was invented.

@Ali_Syed

there was no India, the area has always remained divided...only brief periods of unification during Ashoka, Gupta period, later on most of subcontinent was united under the muslims.

before Gupta, Mauryan empire was even bigger than Muslim empire.

You are talking about political unit, the concept of Motherland, the belonging of the place was always existent.
We called these units as Rajya, state for sanskrit and National as Aryavart

"Janani Janmabhoomischa Swargadapi Gariyasi", sholoka of Ramayan.

@ajazali

also I am surprised by the term used here India the Land of Aryans, as if aryans were native.

Aryan is not race as you are possibly making it, Land of Aryans, literally means land of noble people and that is what they no doubt were. even Al-beruni would agree to this :)

[Southie]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

What made Aryans noble.

[Monk]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@Southie

What made Aryans noble.

my roommate. He was from sounth india... and he loved Aryans.
I think he was one too... he made them noble to me.

[OYMWA]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@Jack_Sparrow

Its been 67 years since partition - until when are you going to keep harping the same tune about what should have happened during partition ? Partition is over, the boundaries are drawn. In the current geo-political situation, no one can force India to vacate Kashmir. Kashmiris will keep hating India as long as they have support from the other side. Once the support for terrorism stops, things will normalize to the pre-1989 situation.

That was my second point. Indians think there is no home-grown insurgency in Kashmir. Which is not true. All you have to do is just talk to a few Kashmiris you know. The anger, the dissatisfaction is real. Just ignoring those facts will not make them go away. 67 years is nothing in a freedom struggle. And by deliberately ignoring the wishes of common people and then discriminating against them, India is making a big mistake. It is just a matter of time before Kashmir either becomes part of Pakistan or semi-autonomous/independent country.

[Med911]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@Jack_Sparrow

Its been 67 years since partition - until when are you going to keep harping the same tune about what should have happened during partition ? Partition is over, the boundaries are drawn. In the current geo-political situation, no one can force India to vacate Kashmir. Kashmiris will keep hating India as long as they have support from the other side. Once the support for terrorism stops, things will normalize to the pre-1989 situation.

partition is over for you, not for us or the Kashmiris. Sooner you realize that the better.

Pre-1989 was normal? You must be mad ! Its everything India did prior to 1989 that resulted in the insurgency.

And if anyone is terrorizing, its the Indian army. I mean, even at the best of times, the degree of state control over Kashmir is disturbing. If anyone is supporting terrorism, its anyone who is in favor of India having her Army continue its occupation under draconian laws.

[Med911]

Re: Kashmiris join insurgency against India at highest rate in two decades

@the_kaur

India was called BharatVarsha, the word Bharat comes from from Raja Bharat mentioned in Mahabharat. Another name used is Aryavart, Land of Aryans. So both political and social idea of India existed before Arabs :)

Kashmir, on the other hand was named after Maharishi Kashyap, who lived there. Since Bharat/Aryavart predated Kashyap

India existed before Kashmir.

Modern state of India has only existed for the past 65 years... What you are referring to is classical India, which was less an actual state then a state of mind.

Classical India doesnt just include modern day India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, but also Sri Lanka and Nepal, and to some extent Afghanistan. India in the classical sense was an overarching culture comprised of many different people of similar beliefs closely interacting with each other. But its was by no means a "state" in the modern sense.

Kashmir as seen in the modern context, is a state which is a separate entity from the modern state of India, whos status remains to be determined.

If Indias claim to Kashmir is simply that its was within the sphere of that overarching culture known as classical India, then I have to ask, why is the modern state of India the sole inheritor of that legacy? We Pakistanis are also inheritors of that ancient legacy. We too are of that culture. Why should our claim to Kashmir be any less valid? Because we dont call ourselves Indian?