Quite a few Pakistani writers, consider Ayub Khans decision not to attack India during the Sino-Indian war of 1962 as one of Pakistan’s greatest mistakes.
What do you guys know about the sino-Indian 1962 war and why do you think Pakistan didn’t intervene?
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
Yes, that was the biggest blunder Ayub ever made when Indians were sitting in Beijing he did not pull the trigger.
I read a state department document from the archives, it was America who held Ayub back.. American and Britain wanted to help India against the commies, don’t forget America slaped sanctions on us in 1965 for even defending ourself.
No point in crying over spilled milk, there is always a next time.
The following is from Dawn, don’t have the link anymore.
Ayub missed hour to free Kashmir: Nasrullah
By Our Staff Reporter
LAHORE, Feb 5: Held Kashmir could have been freed had Pakistan’s armed forces entered the occupied territory soon after China defeated India in 1962 war but the chance was missed by Field Marshal Ayub Khan.
This was stated by Alliance for Restoration of Democracy chief Nawabzada Nasrullah Khan at a Kashmir Day seminar organized by the Jafria Youth at Karbala Gamey Shah on Monday.
** He said at that time Western powers came to the rescue of India and forced Pakistan to enter into bilateral negotiations with it. Ayub Khan succumbed to the pressure exerted by the UK and US emissaries. **
He said the proposal for bilateral dialogue was a conspiracy of Western powers to give India time to consolidate its defence.
“Ayub Khan did not bother to consult even his cabinet or take the National Assembly into confidence while agreeing to the proposal of foreign minister level talks,” the Nawabzada said.
A lot of time was wasted in six rounds of talks between Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistan and Swarn Singh of India and as soon as India consolidated its defence by acquiring arms from the United Stated, the negotiations were allowed to break down, he added.
He disagreed with retired Pakistan diplomat Iqbal Akhund’s theory that Pakistan should discuss Kashmir issue separately and should not press for its resolution during bilateral talks.
“It will be betrayal to the blood of thousands of martyrs who sacrificed their lives for the cause.”
Pakistan should never ignore the sacrifices of Kashmiri freedom-fighters for petty advantages like sugar trade etc., he said.
He said on Kashmir Day the people of Pakistan should show to the world that they were united and considered Kashmiris as part of their nation.
“We have already given Pakistani citizenship to thousands of Kashmiris. They have dual nationality as they cast their vote for electing their representatives in legislative assemblies both in Pakistan as well as Azad Jammu and Kashmir. It is indeed a unique privilege which has been denied to Afghan refugees,” he said.
Nawabzada Nasrullah Khan refuted the impression that Pakistan’s support for the Kashmiri freedom-fighters was part of its expansionist designs and said: “We don’t want Kashmir as territory but are supporting them in their struggle for the right to self-determination.”
PML: Speakers at a meeting held at the Muslim League House expressed dissatisfaction over the Kashmir policy being pursued by the military government and demanded that the nation should be taken into confidence about developments on the issue.
Some of them said that the chief executive should not humiliate the nation by repeatedly making abortive efforts for a dialogue with Indian prime minister Vajpayee.
Nawabzada Nasrullah Khan was the chief guest of the meeting, presided over by acting PML president Javed Hashmi.
PML leaders said that people would continue to support the struggle of Kashmiris despite the fact that because of a military rule in the country their voices were being suppressed.
They said an APHC leader had recently said that Pakistan was the sole advocate of Kashmiris but its own case had been weakened for various reasons.
They said there was a time when the Indian prime minister had visited the Minar-i-Pakistan and thus accepted the Two-Nation ideology. But the situation had changed after the overthrow of the PML government.
If the Indian government struck any deal with the Pakistan government through US pressure, the PML would scrap any such deal after returning to power, they said.
A separate ceremony was held at the Shadman office of Mian Muhammad Azhar.
Speakers, including Syed Fakhar Imam, Sikandar Hayat Malhi, Mian Munir, Mian Waheed, Tariq Banday, Mehnaz Rafi, Faqir Husain Bukhari, and Saeedul Haq Siddiqui, praised the Kashmiris for their struggle for their right to self-determination.
Through a resolution, they said the government should not accept any foreign pressure for the solution of the Kashmir problem.
They said the UN should pay an urgent attention to the problem.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
ok I find these people I am going to slap them for following reasons
1-Musharaf----- making pakistan into whorehouse---getting pakistanis killed by americans
2-Ayub khan------for not attacking India
3-Zia -----------Miss using islam
4-Bhutto --------- starting a fight between haves have nots+ whorehose
5-Nawaz sharif ------- for stealing when he was given power from all 4 provinces
6-mran khan ------for not being a prime ministes for ever
7-pakistani people ------ for not electing imran khan as prime minister
Yeah not attacking india was greatest blunder ever done by a pakistani ruler.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
I think there are two oppinions... Some Indians such as Kuldip Nayar have said that Pakistan could have gained far more if it had sided with India against China...
My bias towards India tells me we should have attacked and taken Kashmir by force. Friendship with China is far more advantageous to friendship with India. It was a huge blunder not to have attacked them, today Kashmir would have been Pakistans fifth province and Pakistan would be in a lot lot lot lot better situation then it currently is in.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
Ah, I remember doing a paper on this during Olevel Pak Studies back in the days, good topic!
Zakk, I believe it was due to Pakistan's strategic alliance with the US at that time. President Kennedy urged Pakistan to condemn the Communist Sino invasion of India, but Pakistan played the cards cautiously and replied by saying 'While the Kashmir issue is still in dispute, Pakistan is monitoring the situation very closely'.
Knockout artist sahib, half the people on your list are dead, un ko tamacha kya agley janam me lagayo gey ;)
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
Knockout artist sahib, half the people on your list are dead, un ko tamacha kya agley janam me lagayo gey ;)
Qiamat waly din... when there will be no security around them.
any ways my slaps are hypothetical.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
lol you heard the joke about zia though? its said that at the day of judgement, Allah mian is meeting all the famous politicians/leaders throughout the world who are in line.... Allah mian stands up and meets everyone, but when Zia's turn came, he kept on sitting... When asked later, he replied by saying Zia has a habit of taking away a person's seat when he stands up...
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
hahahahahahahahaha
some people have limitless imagination.
If you would told that joke to my father - you would be in trouble.
He loved zia-ul-haq as a zia was a saint.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
yeah, ive met and seen alot of zia supporters too... my dad is a big supporter of ayub khan, and has nothing but praise for him... we still have a huge picture of ayub khan which used to be in our house's entrance in the 60s from what i have heard...
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
LOL
we had picture of Zia.
Once under the influence of my teacher I started talking about ideology of peoples party.
My father called me in his room and advised me never to talk bad about a pious man(zia).
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
haha same here, i started pointing out the fallacies of the ayub regime to my dad (which i learnt from my pak studies teacher) and my dad said the same thing lol, they are all the same arent they? hehe
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
^ LOL so true.
I am going to make sure when I have kids they will be allow to say any thing about any politician, Not they way our fathers were.
Oh yeah except imran khan I won let my kids talk bad about imran khan LOLzzz
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
lol there you go...
I guess we all have our favourites, and we cant bear to hear anything against them, its human nature... I guess they are each right, in their own way... Ayub, even Zia, they all had some characteristics which were good, but then again no ones perfect, so they had their flaws too... Its just like Pinochet, alot of people consider him a tyrant, but he has alot of supporters too evident from the fact that they supported him throughout, even when he died today, they showed up in large numbers, sang the anthem and praises for him.
As for Immi, he is no doubt the finest captain/cricketer we had, but as a politician, he has much to prove, and lets hope he does a good job.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
Yeah Spock..apprently the Americans were secretly arming India as well, Pakistan wasn't informed as usual..perhaps that played a role in our intelligence services misjudging India's armed forces capabilities in 1965. Personally I think '62 was a huge mistake...you only have to read Wolperts book on Nehru to figure out how badly the war paralysed Indias government.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
Its wasnt the first time Pakistanis have screwed up… The list is rather long abd goes back as far as back as before the partition itself.
This is probably the second worst thing that happened.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
Arre yaar abhi bhi ladai jhagde ki baat karte ho. Aam janata ke khane peene or padhai likhayi ki baat karo.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
India got quite a whooping in 1962, while we cannot predict what may or may not have happened if Pakistan had engaged India, one thing is for sure, the US would have done something, under the false impression that we were succumbing to communist annexation, just like how Afghanistan did to USSR in the 70s.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
Good point Spock; on the other hand while many of us Pakistani's mention how the Indians got a real trashing, in strictly material terms their losses were not that heavy, it was the scale of the retreat that was the bigger issue.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
Well, I might agree, casulaties werent much (500 or so) but there was a considerable loss to India, in terretorial terms, an unbiased article says:
The Chinese did not advance farther and on November 21 declared a unilateral cease-fire. They had accomplished all of their territorial objectives, and any attempt to press farther into the plains of Assam would have stretched their logistical capabilities and their lines of communication to a breaking point.
They were smart, they werent there to defeat India and conquer it, they were there for that part of land and they got that, and thats when they ended the whole thing. Now if Pakistan had skirmished from the other side, one can only speculate what the Chinese would have done, my guess is they wouldnt have annexed any further.
Re: Kashmir lost in 1962?
I agree, India was too weak and may well have retreated from Kashmir, if there was an attack from China & Pakistan in 1962.
But Uncle Sam looks after both India & Pakistan - India could have moved it's victorious army from Bangla Desh in 1971 and captured all of Pakistan.
India too acted maturely once it's aim was achieved and stopped the fighting.