This is a question to anyone who thinks they’re Pakistani.
I just saw a commercial on one of our Pakistani news channels where in the product stamp, Kashmir was removed from the map of Pakistan. I think it was the sensodyne toothpaste add… I am not sure. I know it’s a disputed territory, but I have always seen Kashmir with a dotted line shown as part of Pakistan so I was really shocked.
I remember many of my school mates signed up to join the Kashmiri mujahideen every year, some only aged 15 or 16 and against the wish of their parents even. I grew up watching tele stories and dramas about how beautiful Kashmir was and how brave the Kashmiri people are. But I’ve seen a considerable decrease in all this in the past decade or so. PTV is the only channel that still broadcasts the Kashmir report.
I want to know,
Why do you think this has happened?
What is your (an average Pakistani’s) stance on the Kashmir issue?
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
Well......i really don't have any opinion on the 'map' thing...
but general view regarding Kashmir is........since pakistan is itself suffering from so much issues and troubles, and india is way too much stronger both militarily and on the diplomatic turf.........Pakistan realistically can not afford to follow up on the Kashmir issue and people are way too much occupied dealing with their day to day struggle of surviving here inside Pakistan....
So...in that sense.....Kashmire has taken a back-seat with regard to priorities of pakistani people..... Whats more important is that the areas that are inside pakistan, they need to be fixed before and govt established and 'rights' of people cared for..........instead of worrying about people who are practically in another country...
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
I think both sides should just settle for what they have. No way in hell is Pakistan going to get the Jammu part and anyways, most Kashmiris want independence. I once went to Rawlakot with a friend (who was himself Kashmiri) and everyone I met there kept ranting on and on about how they were not Pakistani and stuff.
So I think that spending money on the Kashmir issue is a total and absolute waste, esp when Pakistan is beset with so many economic problems.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
Kashmir , Hyderabad , Junagarh , Monabao etc were abandoned the day we signed the agreement to create Pakistan with the right given the rulers of these states to decide the fate of their states.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
When there is a good chance that the country will either dis-integrate or lose territory and Pakistanis seem so helpless in preventing this, they should not even think about Kashmir.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
It was a head in the sand kind of attitude to keep showing J&K as part of pakistani map.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
The private channels were dictated/advised/ordered gradually to do so in Musharraf dark era. It took only 8 years to start showing maps of Pakistan without Kashmir, just as India has been showing the whole Kashmir territory in its boundaries ever since. We also came very close to accept Israel. The channels were effectively used to brain wash the minds of the poeple for that but thank God it did not go to the last level, otherwise, Musharraf had left no stone unturned.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
mery sary bary bhaeeon in this thread... is larky sy khuch seekh leen... Atleast he calls a spade a spade.
Listen what he says::
Well......i really don't have any opinion on the 'map' thing...
but general view regarding Kashmir is........since pakistan is itself suffering from so much issues and troubles, and india is way too much stronger both militarily and on the diplomatic turf.........Pakistan realistically can not afford to follow up on the Kashmir issue and people are way too much occupied dealing with their day to day struggle of surviving here inside Pakistan....
So...in that sense.....Kashmire has taken a back-seat with regard to priorities of pakistani people..... Whats more important is that the areas that are inside pakistan, they need to be fixed before and govt established and 'rights' of people cared for..........instead of worrying about people who are practically in another country...
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
This is a question to anyone who thinks they're Pakistani. I just saw a commercial on one of our Pakistani news channels where in the product stamp, Kashmir was removed from the map of Pakistan. I think it was the sensodyne toothpaste add... I am not sure. I know it's a disputed territory, but I have always seen Kashmir with a dotted line shown as part of Pakistan so I was really shocked. I remember many of my school mates signed up to join the Kashmiri mujahideen every year, some only aged 15 or 16 and against the wish of their parents even. I grew up watching tele stories and dramas about how beautiful Kashmir was and how brave the Kashmiri people are. But I've seen a considerable decrease in all this in the past decade or so. PTV is the only channel that still broadcasts the Kashmir report. I want to know, Why do you think this has happened? What is your (an average Pakistani's) stance on the Kashmir issue?
I support the Kashmiris right to freedom.
But i have come to realize that Pakistan cannot do the work for them. if the Kashmiri people are not willing to put in the work themselves, then its not our place to fight for them.
iF syrians and Libyans can protest in the face of such heavy handed tactics, isnt it about time the valley rose up in a similar manner... Sure they have done so in the past, but it always dies down.
If the Kashmiris are content with the way things are, then so be it.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
Kashmir , Hyderabad , Junagarh , Monabao etc were abandoned the day we signed the agreement to create Pakistan with the right given the rulers of these states to decide the fate of their states.
That didnt stop india from taking over Hyderabad. Pity Pakistan for being at the losing end of this whole deal.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
if the Kashmiri people are not willing to put in the work themselves, then its not our place to fight for them.
and kashmiris are not willing to work because (whether we like it or not) they want to remain part of India. I have many kashmiri friends (from J&K) in USA and they get angry if you even hint that they are not indians (or if you call their part of Kashmir "Maqbooza Kashmir)
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
It was a head in the sand kind of attitude to keep showing J&K as part of pakistani map.
But then Indians also show all of Kashmir as being indian, do they not? If we are living in delusion, its mutual. :)
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
I support the Kashmiris right to freedom. But i have come to realize that Pakistan cannot do the work for them. if the Kashmiri people are not willing to put in the work themselves, then its not our place to fight for them. iF syrians and Libyans can protest in the face of such heavy handed tactics, isnt it about time the valley rose up in a similar manner... Sure they have done so in the past, but it always dies down. If the Kashmiris are content with the way things are, then so be it.
That is the second cold hard truth.
They say if kashmiris were any thing like pashtoon.. kashmir would have been part of pak a long, long time ago.
Don't ask me who are they.. :D
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
But then Indians also show all of Kashmir as being indian, do they not? If we are living in delusion, its mutual. :)
No they are not delusional.. Read my reply #25. Kashmiris love to be called indians too.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
No they are not delusional.. Read my reply #25. Kashmiris love to be called indians too.
also listen to altafs' speech while you are at it... you might want to give karachi back too..
Seriously it doesn't hurt to have little back bone.... what else we got we scared to lose????
hell is been unleashed on us already. Why being chicken shyt now...
Kashmir WAS ours....
doesn't matter if NOW its a war lost to indians.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
and kashmiris are not willing to work because (whether we like it or not) they want to remain part of India. I have many kashmiri friends (from J&K) in USA and they get angry if you even hint that they are not indians (or if you call their part of Kashmir "Maqbooza Kashmir)
Pakistanis are wasting their meager resources on fighting for people who dont want them fighting for them.
We should still seek an amicable solution, but if the Kashmiris are content, then there is no problem to begin with.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
also listen to altafs' speech while you are at it... you might want to give karachi back too..
Seriously it doesn't hurt to have little back bone.... what else we got we scared to lose???? hell is been unleashed on us already. Why being chicken shyt now... Kashmir WAS ours....
doesn't matter if NOW its a war lost to indians.
You can live in a fantasy land dude, but Kashmirs dont want it to be part of Pakistan. they want to be called indians. Instead of blaming us for not having back bone, why dont you go and talk to a Indian kashmiri muslim and see what he has to say.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
No they are not delusional.. Read my reply #25. Kashmiris love to be called indians too.
What I meant is that geographically, they can only hold on the part of Kashmir they have. If their map shows all of Kashmir as being Indian, then that is their delusion.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
You can live in a fantasy land dude, but Kashmirs dont want it to be part of Pakistan. they want to be called indians. Instead of blaming us for not having back bone, why dont you go and talk to a Indian kashmiri muslim and see what he has to say.
boss. I said it WAS part of pakistan.
We lost this battle to india....
Now we can fall in love with india.. its nothing new.. many rape victim fall in love with their perpetrator.
Re: Kashmir abandoned?
That is the second cold hard truth. They say if kashmiris were any thing like pashtoon.. kashmir would have been part of pak a long, long time ago. Don't ask me who are they.. :D
Yeah, but thats the sad part, they arent. If they were even remotely Arab, we might have seen a Kashmiri Spring aswell.
its tragic that these people can live like they do, with Kashmir being a virtual prison, and still not realize they have something to fight over.
It could be pschological. They have been beaten down so thoroughly, they no longer have the fight left in them.