Karachi LB elections results

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Karachi LB elections results

Where I used the word punjabiii. Chor ki darhi main tinka hota hey shay ad.

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Re: Karachi LB elections results

How come mentioning Punjab's politicians were mostly from Unionist Party is cursing and hating Punjabis?

BTW, quota system was introduced by someone who belonged to East Punjab . Bhutto just took that to another level.

PS: Again reference to East Punjab is not abusing Punjabis as I see it coming soon.

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Re: Karachi LB elections results

N one more thing July August. Never use the word bast** for any one who is against your liking. May it is AH . NS . ZAB or even fazur rahman.

There are many bad words comes in my mind but I refrain to use them.
My English may not be fit for the pupose but I know some bit of punjabi that will suffice

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Re: Karachi LB elections results

You didn't, but since you mentioned history, I just wanted to point out that target of such frustration and bitterness over history is often the wrong group!

The general demonisation, antipathy and blame game on Punjabis in Karachi or by MQM doesn't make any sense. When Muhajirs had faced all their discriminatory issues in Sindh from language issues to economic control, Punjab was really backward and behind at that time with no serious political presence. The Urdu speaking Muhajir diaspora in Punjab did not face such issues in Punjab neither at the time of migration or the later flights that happened in 80s and 90s. The phenomena of so called Punjabi prominence is a very 80s thing - this is where bulk of urbanisation started to happen with increase in literacy rate and people joining professional services. Despite huge population, no such thing as "Punjabi party" existed until Zia came in and created PMLN, just like he created MQM.

Sometimes it is beyond me why Punjabis are blamed and hated for whatever happened to Urdu speakers before the 80s or even after! Or even for the fall of Dhaka. Gen Niazi wasn't Punjabi nor Yahya Khan. You cannot deny that there is a massive group of MQM supporters/voters and other groups from Sindh that do see things like that. I've been told all these things on my face!

I digress...

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Re: Karachi LB elections results

Nothing Serious
You can call the other

#ٹھرکی_بڈھا](https://twitter.com/hashtag/ٹھرکی_بڈھا?src=hash)
#](https://twitter.com/hashtag/بٹھرکی_بڈھا?src=hash)

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Re: Karachi LB elections results

No one blames punjabi's . Mostly it the wrong doing of army . Or to be correct the top brass of army who had not understandible superiority complex. Most of the problems this country is facing because of these stupid 12 jamaat pass. Including creation of ttp.
The same subject has been discussed in minuteSt of details in other thread. I don't want to spend my energy to repeat. ..
How many of our own ppl had been killed by Army. Y still u me n many other still standing behind them at this moment of time.

I hope this analogy work to understand why no other option for urdu speaking ppl in khi.
Or maybe many r in state of denial about such things

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I don’t agree. He is leader of maybe millions of people. Using such words will hurt their feelings. Also there is nothing wrong if he married to reham. At least better than having non married relations. There is no binding on marriage at his age.
That’s y I didn’t participate in the other thread at this subject.

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Re: Karachi LB elections results

Don't stand behind the Army then if you think you are doing an ehsaan on them or the country.

A bit of very useful lesson in history for you:

Historically, whenever a new Muslim nation state had been created, their Armies usually took control over the country by virtue of being most organised and authoritative entity. It is a very post-colonialp, post imperial phenomena. Turkish Army over threw a rich Caliphate, gained independence through fighting the whole of Europe, Mustafa Kemal ruled the country after him, there had been several military coups in between suppressing various conservative rebellions and groups to help shape Turkey's image of pseudo European 'Muslim' country with ultra secular and modern outlook which the Pakistani liberals and seculars so love without having a clue about the ways it was achieved.

Turkish Army had massacred Kurds, Armenians, Greeks, as well as crushing regional rebellion groups, famously Derism and Ararat massacre. Our Army hasn't even done half of these things, a lot of flak they get is quite disproportionate, and sadly a certain hatred for them has become quite generational thing - it just gets passed down from a generation to generation.

Anyway...

When mew Arabs states were also created after WWI, apart from Gulf Monarchies, Middle Eastern countries quickly fell into hands of life long military dictators.

Pakistan's history as a post colonial nation state is nothing different from what other Muslim countries went through, i.e dictators taking over to maintain stability and order. This is history.

Even the pride of modern Western civilisation - the French Revolution, Napoleon the military dictator had to take over install some order after the whole egalitarian revolutionary mayhem to preserve the new set up.

So yes, all countries have skeletons in their closet in regards to history, they all have dark chapters. Pakistan's history if you put in post colonial context, you would see that we actually haven't been that worse when you see what countries like Turkey and Arab world went through - at the same period.

Why our "history" is different is because our history is really recent, and we still have a scarred generation.

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This word was not about Reham or Great Jemima
This is his charecter & life story , innocent Tyrian is the evidence

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Aah
Kisi Sindhi Baluch Pakhton say poocho
Ab Urdu speaking Pakistani bhi bhugat rahay hain
Bangal walon say poochho
Jab Saraiki bolain gay to woh bhi bhugtain gay

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Do you know your MQM is also a creation of a stupid 12 jamaat? Go on, disown MQM as an evil force created by Zia just like Taliban. MQM had burned alive double the number of people killed by Taliban in APS. What's the difference?

You may conveniently choose to never blame a military dictator for creating MQM, but reality is, outside of Karachi MQM too is considered nothing but just another murderous, hatred and terror spreading curse created by military dictator to block his opponents.

You may not blame Punjabis, but do not deny the hatred MQM and their supporters spew for Punjabis, they even lashed out their Punjabi hatred on IK. Now don't say MQM is nobody in Karachi, and no one supports and follows them.

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Ab agar woh (MQM) right path par chal pari hay to chalnay do
12 pass ko achha kam pasand naheen
Agar pakarna hay to Zia ka aur Mush ka court martial karo

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Re: Karachi LB elections results

@Moonstar201

So much for Bengalis hating governments of 12 Jamat pass Pakistani dictators, mind explaining why there was a military coup in Bangladesh only four years after their independence killing their founding father and his entire family (except one daughter)? Ayub through electoral fraud got rid of Jinnah’s sister, Bengladeshi Army just very openly killed Mujib ur Rehman- the founding father of Bangladesh. Do you see the irony? The only difference is, there is no ethnic victimisation to promote over Mujib’s death in Bangladesh.

Bangladesh who got independence from Pakistan under a military government learn anything from the history either. Which Bengali Army General killed Zia ur Rehman in 1982? What about coups in Bangladesh in 80s, 90s, and then very recently in 2007?

You would think that Bangladesh would be the first country to draw the line on military adventures, no? So much for Pakistani “intellectuals” hating and blaming Pakistan Army for separation of East Pakistan and dishonestly pulling the military card as a proxy to promote ethnic hatred, dear Bangladesh’s own military history post Independence is absolutely nothing to be proud of - it’s an utter disgrace.

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Re: Karachi LB elections results

The reason I am making this post is not to give a clean chit to Army, but highlighting the very basic 'historical' fact that how all Muslim countries have seriously struggled to implement Western style Parliamentary democracy. From Turkey to Bangladesh, it's a same story of juggling between two different set of systems and ideas.

I challenge everyone to give me a name of one Muslim country in post colonial world where they had a smooth, successful and uninterrupted transition to closest form of Western style parliamentary democracy. I'd only give some credit to Malaysia, and that's about it for now.

Other than that. you have monarchies in Gulf, dictators in Middle East, Mullahs in Iran, ultra liberal military elite in Turkey (changing now), feudal, oligarchs and generals in Pakistan, politicised military and dynastic politics in Bangladesh....

Like it or not, parliamentary democracy is simply not a by-product of Islamic civilization. Hence visible and often a bloody struggle in whole of Muslim world to implement this system. It's not just one or two countries - it's very much the whole Islamic world. If it wasn't for pressure on Turkey to align itself with political ethics of European Union, there would have been a military take over by now to get rid of 'conservative' Erodgan, like there had been for past governments.

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Re: Karachi LB elections results

Dear ,

I cud not go thorugh all but what i understood from above few posts of yours

  1. Armies of all muslim countries are doing killing of their own ppl for STAB-ILIZNG their country. Hence our army also has the rite to do so. and that is correct
  2. Western democracy is not suitable for muslim world hence every now and than Army should come and kill few hundrad ppl , take the govt for few years than return it back to so called dirty politicians thats how things work and shall work.

Thanks alot for enlightening us. But beleive me if Army is not doing such Ehsaan and being in their camps rather than palying the policy of divide and rule among politicians , things wud have started going on the rite path. Dont you see the continuation of democracy is already giving some fruits.. rather than Kyani had had done the coap during AAZ tenure...

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No one has a "right" to kill anyone, and no it is not correct. So please do not insult yours and mine intelligence by saying such inane things like this.

The simple fact you need to comprehend is that Pakistan country is not that only country where Military had intervened in politics. All modern Muslim nations states have struggled or are struggling to implement true democracy in letter and spirit. It is a simple fact. A trial and error reality of struggling Muslim nations. So stop cursing your Army and painting them as worst thing to happen since the creation of Satan to destroy the self esteem of present generation by overburdening them with emotional and psychological baggage of the past - something what MQM and PPP does. This generational sense of victim complex won't take the country anywhere, or at least some communities.

[QUOTE]
2. Western democracy is not suitable for muslim world hence every now and than Army should come and kill few hundrad ppl , take the govt for few years than return it back to so called dirty politicians thats how things work and shall work.
[/QUOTE]

You have serious chip on the shoulder against Pakistan Army. But if you clear your mind of bigotry and biases, and consider this point from an academic point of view, you will find that it is quite extraordinary how all Muslims countries (not just one or two) are struggling to implement this system in letter and spirit. One of the major reason for collective Muslim embarrassment on world stage.

But the simple answer is, parliamentary democracy is not a by product of Islamic civilization. It is largely a foreign concept imposed through colonisation, and Muslim world have a long long way to go before they could fully understand and implement this system. In the process, they are bound to go through many processes of trial and error before they can find the right combination that works for them! For me, Ayub Khan - Fatimah Jinnah episode is history in context and a failed experiment, but for you it is incurable ethnic scarring, a generational sense of victim complex, and time frozen in that moment.

For example, in Pakistan every Tom, Dick and Harry can chant jamhooriyat ka nara, but how many think that voting is an integral part of citizenship, core principle of democracy, a person's right, responsibility and a privilege? Democracy is essentially a process to select the lesser evil, what's Pakistanis' general understanding of this concept? 15-20% turn out. Beyond pathetic. Muslim societies do lack the enlightenment to accommodate such democratic ethics and awareness, and it will take time to overcome that (and that's me being optimistic!).

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^ Someone is equating middle eastern monarchies and Pakistani generals as viable solutions to ignorance and apathy of people who do not deserve democracy.

Well done.

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Nope, I am not equating monarchies and generals as viable solutions to anything.

Whatever. Nice try.

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Humain andaza haa aapki umar ka, ye b k aap kitni tharki posts share krtay hain :smiley:

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For folks, Miandad could not complete 300 because IK declared iningings is a greater issue than what PTI has to say about Taliban. Accept the reality that's what in the mind of people than doing aen baen shaen. Now I expect someone drag tandoor example and ignore thefridaytimes article about racism in Karachi. :D