Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
From a religious point of view the first thing to do is find out for sure who has done this ...
Aliens did it. Sane people everywhere know who did it & why. So, stop sugar coating it.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Kakaballi ... I agree with you ... I don't know anyone who supports this ... They call it revenge ... Even revenge should be appropriate ... This sort of thing is not appropriate ... But I would like to ask the OP why she felt the religious needed to speak ... It appears the religious are getting blamed for these acts ... If they were truly religious then they would not harm a fly ... ...
You use fancy words all the time but cannot understand a simple argument? I try again;
- Millions of people follow religious leaders.
- Terrorists are doing whatever they are doing in the name of Islam.
- If religious leaders keep quiet, then people think that they approve of whatever terrorists are doing [according to the hadith you quoted].
- Since religious leaders approve of terrorists doing these sort of things in the name of Islam, anyone hurting terrorists is hurting Islam.
Why are you insisting that Ulema have no duty to speak out against terrorists who are using the name of the religion that these Ulema claim to propagate?
If terrorists were doing all this in the name of communism or biology, then we can exempt Ulema/The Religious of any duty.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Aliens did it. Sane people everywhere know who did it & why. So, stop sugar coating it.
Thank you Shamraz
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
You use fancy words all the time but cannot understand a simple argument? I try again;
- Millions of people follow religious leaders.
- Terrorists are doing whatever they are doing in the name of Islam.
- If religious leaders keep quiet, then people think that they approve of whatever terrorists are doing [according to the hadith you quoted].
- Since religious leaders approve of terrorists doing these sort of things in the name of Islam, anyone hurting terrorists is hurting Islam.
Why are you insisting that Ulema have no duty to speak out against terrorists who are using the name of the religion that these Ulema claim to propagate?
If terrorists were doing all this in the name of communism or biology, then we can exempt Ulema/The Religious of any duty.
I'm not insisting on that contrary position Kakaballi ... In my previous post I stated that ... It is also in hadith that to stop an injustice with the hands, or with mouth or dislike it in the heart is part of Iman ... but those who merely dislike it in the heart are weak in iman ... The ulema need to speak out as you say ... but at the same time we need to seek the ulema out on our daily day to day things too ... Rather than asking why others are not doing certain things it is better to do things ourselves ... I'm sure if the media cared enough it would seek out what the ulema have to say about this ... but we cannot blame the ulema for this either ...
Karachi Airport Shootings
These animals attacked tableeghi markaz too. As much as I'm against them, it's very unfair to hold ALL religious leaders responsible for that. However these leaders whether politicians or religious have to come clean as to clearly condemn Taliban and showing absolute ZERO tolerance to terrorism
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
I don’t follow this particular 'alim … but he has done just that …
I don’t follow this particular 'alim either … but he has also condemned the attacks …
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/sindh/04-Jan-2014/aswj-maulana-farooqi-asks-to-stay-calm
I don’t even know this 'alim, but he seems to be important … also condemned the attack.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
one question:
if military solution was viable, don't you think Pak army would have gone all out to wipe them off?
they carried out an operation in Swat, they cleared the area after the Talibans had already escaped to a safer place.
as long as there are safe heavens inside or across the border in AfGhanistan, they keep moving around. they are like air in a balloon...you squeeze one end, the air moves to the other end and causes a bigger bulge there.
the solution is to punch a hole in the balloon and let the air scape in the space...no place to return to.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Hafiz Saeed condemns the attacks … and he also blames Modi for masterminding it despite TTP claims to it …
Karachi airport attack Live: Hafiz Saeed blames Modi govt | Firstpost
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Really stop blaming the ulema for the terrorism and start to bring changes in yourselves if you want this GOD GIVEN ZAWAL to end … !!!
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
As much as I'm against them, it's very unfair to hold ALL religious leaders responsible for that.
Lets get few things straight...
1) People who are doing this are doing it in the name of religion.
2) People who funding these terrorists are doing it in the name of religion ( hardline Whabbis/Sauids who are spreading terrorism all over the world).
3) Many of the terrorists are getting support from hard-line religious schools and mosques.
4) Majority of Taliban are product of brainwashing by religion/mullahs/madrassas.
5) Mullahs help spread conspiracy theories & and opposed to going after terrorists & are undermining security forces.
So, who should we blame?
BTW, same people were outraged about qawali on tv, but are not outrage of daily occurrence of mass murder by these jihadi terrorists.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Lets get few things straight...
1) People who are doing this are doing it in the name of religion. 2) People who funding these terrorists are doing it in the name of religion ( hardline Whabbis/Sauids who are spreading terrorism all over the world). 3) Many of the terrorists are getting support from hard-line religious schools and mosques. 4) Majority of Taliban are product of brainwashing by religion/mullahs/madrassas. 5) Mullahs help spread conspiracy theories & and opposed to going after terrorists & are undermining security forces.
So, who should we blame?
BTW, same people were outraged about qawali on tv, but are not outrage of daily occurrence of mass murder by these jihadi terrorists.
Blame yourself ... it's about time you start to do that ...
What I mean is ... stop witch hunting ... that attitude is not helpful
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Don't kill me for what I am about to say. It is a bit naive to me when people want to blame religion for violent acts such as this one. I know it sounds strange coming from someone like myself. The truth is, people no matter what religion dont just wake up one day and decide to end their lives in suicide bombings or shootings by targeting certain groups. When a hurt person becomes vengeful, he/she is often holding on to the very last thing that hasn't betrayed him/her. In this case, it is the religion that has not betrayed him/her. It is their faith that gives them security. It is not the religion that is the source of evil here. The intent is different when someone terrorizes others for the religion vs when someone terrorizes others in the name of religion.
It took me ages to understand the difference but I think I get it now.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Don't call them Ulema or Allamas or Molvis. They are juhelas of Islam and followers of Abu Jahal.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Here is the problem. There is not much distinction between those we call extremists and those we call their moderate counterparts!
Every one would think that moderates of that school of thought are not on the center of spectrum. But unfortunately it is not the case. If Taliban extremists are at 100% then their moderate brothers are somewhere around 90%. Distinction is very little.
This is why there still is strong sense of sympathy for taliban cause in Pakistan among common so-called moderate population. Taliban are still claimed to be 'apnay log'. War against them is still considered a western war imposed on us to fight our own brothers.
Now the so-called moderate champions of extremist Islam can condemn Taliban terrorism all they want, they can issue fatwas to save their own skin, but we know that moderates and extremists of that ideology are not much different.
and that is the problem.
Remember their moderate hero Zakir Naik, who called Yazid raziallah anhu?! Well, that pretty much sums up those moderates.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
I know that bluntly telling the truth about that ideology hurts where it hurts most.
That intolerant ideology is full of takfir against other Muslims, calling them mushrik, kafir.
And those are their Moderates doing it.
Nawaz the moderate talibani did every effort to somehow save Taliban against the wrath of Muslims. “Our own people”.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1041787
Published Sep 10, 2013 05:39am
Referring to the outcome of an earlier APC held in September 2011, the conference decided to give “peace a chance” and said dialogue must be initiated with “our own people”. “It should be the first priority.”
No. They are not OUR own people. They are only Nawaz’s people.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Hafiz Saeed condemns the attacks ... and he also blames Modi for masterminding it despite TTP claims to it ...
Are you joking, are you high?
How can you quote an extremist conspiracy theorist like Hafiz Saeed?
That shameless goat is blaming INDIA in order to save skin of his fellow takfiri ideologists. That is understandable. But I can't understand you quoting him?!
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Here is the problem. There is not much distinction between those we call extremists and those we call their moderate counterparts! Every one would think that moderates of that school of thought are not on the center of spectrum. But unfortunately it is not the case. If Taliban extremists are at 100% then their moderate brothers are somewhere around 90%. Distinction is very little.
This is why there still is strong sense of sympathy for taliban cause in Pakistan among common so-called moderate population. Taliban are still claimed to be 'apnay log'. War against them is still considered a western war imposed on us to fight our own brothers.
Now the so-called moderate champions of extremist Islam can condemn Taliban terrorism all they want, they can issue fatwas to save their own skin, but we know that moderates and extremists of that ideology are not much different.
and that is the problem.
Remember their moderate hero Zakir Naik, who called Yazid raziallah anhu?! Well, that pretty much sums up those moderates.
Peace khoji
In practical terms what does 90% mean? Is it enough not to blame them for the crimes of the 100% extremist or is it close enough to blame them as well? At what percentage is it considered different enough? For me even if there are two groups that are just as extreme as each other one does a crime the other one does not ... Then the ones to blame are not all of them ... But simply those who did the crime ... Zakir Naik did not do attacks in Karachi ... To make such a connection is ridiculous.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Are you joking, are you high? How can you quote an extremist conspiracy theorist like Hafiz Saeed?
That shameless goat is blaming INDIA in order to save skin of his fellow takfiri ideologists. That is understandable. But I can't understand you quoting him?!
I just quoted it dude ... Get over it!
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
Separatism creates conflict … Unity does not. Khoji it does not matter what you believe … We should all align on some common ground … Even if that means we only have our skin colour left that is common … We should use that as an excuse to come together.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
They aren't Nawaz's people anymore. The airport getting bombed doesn't reflect well on him either.
The Pakistan government should forget it's dreams of using these Taliban as a strategic asset of some sort. Taliban won't leave for Afghanistan once the US leaves. There is nothing to go back to in Afghanistan, whereas Pakistan has usable resources.
These goons are going to continue to wreak havoc on our country unless we do something about it. The government needs to go after them with everything it has and stop holding back. Peace is not an option, because you cannot reason with crazy people. You cannot reason with someone who thinks he has nothing to lose. Heck these crazies think killing people and then getting killed is a one way ticket to land of virgins.
Re: Karachi Airport Shootings
They aren't Nawaz's people anymore. The airport getting bombed doesn't reflect well on him either.
The Pakistan government should forget it's dreams of using these Taliban as a strategic asset of some sort. Taliban won't leave for Afghanistan once the US leaves. There is nothing to go back to in Afghanistan, whereas Pakistan has usable resources.
These goons are going to continue to wreak havoc on our country unless we do something about it. The government needs to go after them with everything it has and stop holding back. Peace is not an option, because you cannot reason with crazy people. You cannot reason with someone who thinks he has nothing to lose. Heck these crazies think killing people and then getting killed is a one way ticket to land of virgins.
All we need to do is mend our ways ... and that means stopping the aimless killing of innocents everywhere, anywhere ... If your words are acted upon - do you really believe the TTP will just end? They are not the only crazy ones are they ... we can't reason out our own actions so there is no point thinking we are any better ...