I can only trust you to have such lofty thoughts mon cher.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Roman: *
KN, good that you editted that - that was truly a cheap shot at Ahmadi character and baseless accusation of his unhealthy relationship with neighbor's dog.
[/QUOTE]
Roman: That's not a dog.
Dog, hog, same thing, same thing.
Chaltahai and Roman, I will take any breed over you two. You guys suck. How can you even think that I will do that to a neighbor’s dog?
NYA: we have already agreed to that it is not a dog. So stop your bicth-ing.
Hahahaha! That's a good one, Chaltahai.
Some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant.
Re: Kanjar Community
Prostitution is in society from the begining of human society, we can make efforts to control this, i am agreed. But to say prostitution Kanajrs are doing is something called illegal or a crime i am totally disagreed. How you can say one profession which is not harming someone by monetory loss, physical harm can be counted as wrong? Why we think only women is wrong there are so many reasons behind this. Are we able to provide them a satisfactory job? Are we able to change people's minds, mentality towards these females and communities? Are we able to change our own mind set? Dont you think first we need to take it as a sub cultural group, and we need to analyse wats the ground root cause is behind this practise. I think by this not only we all can start making ourself a better human being but also will be able to give them status of human being, living beings. Give a thought!
Re: Kanjar Community
That was a dumb post, surbhi dayal. Prostitution is against both God's law and man made law. You know nothing about prostitution--the girls and women who are involved are total victims of their circumstances. In Pakistan, in the Heera Mandi area, little girls are sold to men both locally and abroad who pay handsomely to rob them of their virginity (we're talking 12 year old girls being sold to 60 year old men). The older girls and women are beaten, raped and abused. They are exposed to AIDS and other diseases, and can do nothing about protecting themselves. Is that something that should be allowed? There goes your theory that no one is being hurt. They ARE human beings, which is precisely why prostitution should be outlawed. You think those women are taking home their earnings? No, their pimps take just about everything, the women live in utter filth and suffer day in and day out. They are hopeless and their children are born to repeat the cycle. The daughter of a tawaif is always a tawaif.
There are two excellent books on the subject: Taboo by Fouzia Saeed and The Dancing Girls of Lahore by Louise Brown. Both are written by professors who spent time in the area. Louise Brown's book is so phenomenonal and riveting, especially since she (a British white woman) spent five years living in Heera Mandi, a witness to everything that goes on. It's not a pretty picture, to say the least. People like to glamourize it as if it is a scene out of Pakeeza, but it's NOTHING like that. The darbari culture died a long time ago, and all that's left is cheap commercial sex, desperate women and lecherous, opportunisitic men.
Re: Kanjar Community
They sound very geisha-esque to me.
Re: Kanjar Community
This thread reminds me of people like Xtreme ,Sabah ,Spock and NYAhmadi on this forum.
Good days ..awsome threads...
Re: Kanjar Community
Kanjar means pimp, and kanjari refers to a hooker. But Kanjar also refers to the biradari/caste/tribe of these people. Traditionally, you have two kinds of prostitutes: those who are born into it because their mothers were tawaifs (these are from the Kanjar tribe), and those women who weren't (they were sold into it, tricked into it, kidnapped into it, ran away from home and had no other choice, etc). The Kanjars think of themselves as being higher class than the average cheap street prostitute. They are the ones you think of when you remember Mughal darbars and mujras, etc. The proper Kanjari commands a high price and is versed in song, dance and the arts. They were probably "faithful" to one patron at a time. The "non-Kanjari" prostitute is probably a poor village woman lost in the city who'll do it with anyone for a few rupees.
Re: Kanjar Community
[FONT='Comic Sans MS']Ms. RATKIRANI u were not able to get the real msg hidden behind my words... anyways let me explain it..i raised some questions...what their menaing is ...u r not able to get completely. Ok lets see all those things which u feel r rubbish... Why we think only women is wrong there are so many reasons behind this?. is this question is not sufficient to say itself that women are not practicing so called prostitution becoj of their choice but there are so many other factors which are pushing them to being in it…like patriarchy, poverty and some other reasons . Are we able to provide them a satisfactory job? Is this question is not pointing out towards their situation that is our society, we ourself are willing to/promise a job by which they can earn a livelihood..Are we able to change people's minds, mentality towards these females and communities? Are we able to change our own mind set? As u said there are pimps, other people those who are pushing them in to this flesh trade…even why don’t u take people like politicians, leaders, academicians and ofcourse researchers like me, fouzia saeed are ready to change not only peoples mentality but ours too?? Dont you think first we need to take it as a sub cultural group, and we need to analyse wats the ground root cause is behind this practise. If we want these women to come out we need a very ground level work…where we need to prove other people in the society that they are human being, they have their own norms and customs….we cant say these women are degraded, criminal or doing illegal activities…..the time when we will be done with the ground level work we ll be able to make change in these sex workers life and their childrens kife….”ek tawaif ka bachcha tawayaf hi hoga” this mentality we need to change but its possible only when we ll be able to change peoples mind set up…..even the pimps are men from these communities mostly…why these men are not working…why these females are not able to acess STD, HIV/AIDS clinics? What are the factors stopping them to approach these clinics…do we have answers? No not atall becoj we had not done with the ground work Becoj here we need to understand first wat are the cultural factors stopping them to go to a clinic? Fouzia Saeed started this work but we also need to take responsibilies to carry this work ahead, isn’t it?? I started my research only by keeping these girls situation, humiliation in my mind.
[FONT='Comic Sans MS']Ya in my next mail I ll be back with the some information available on Kanjar community.
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There are two excellent books on the subject: Taboo by Fouzia Saeed and The Dancing Girls of Lahore by Louise Brown. Both are written by professors who spent time in the area. Louise Brown's book is so phenomenonal and riveting, especially since she (a British white woman) spent five years living in Heera Mandi, a witness to everything that goes on. It's not a pretty picture, to say the least. People like to glamourize it as if it is a scene out of Pakeeza, but it's NOTHING like that. The darbari culture died a long time ago, and all that's left is cheap commercial sex, desperate women and lecherous, opportunisitic men.
Re: Kanjar Community
The Kanjar/Miraasi/Doom communities from different regions of Pak use "art" (music and dance) as a cover up for their real business, which is Dalaali (pimping their women), just like in Britain brothels disguise themselves as massage parlours.
Re: Kanjar Community
There are two excellent books on the subject: Taboo by Fouzia Saeed and The Dancing Girls of Lahore by Louise Brown. Both are written by professors who spent time in the area. Louise Brown's book is so phenomenonal and riveting, especially since she (a British white woman) spent five years living in Heera Mandi, a witness to everything that goes on. It's not a pretty picture, to say the least. People like to glamourize it as if it is a scene out of Pakeeza, but it's NOTHING like that. The darbari culture died a long time ago, and all that's left is cheap commercial sex, desperate women and lecherous, opportunisitic men.
That brought tears to my eyes, it's sad, is the Pakistani goverment doing anything to put an end to it? Are they any NGO's who are doing anything to help these women by putting an end to this business and educating these women so that they can have respectable professions and their daughters don't have the same fate?
Re: Kanjar Community
[FONT='Bookman Old Style']I tried to findout some information in historical litrature regarding “Kanjar” community. hope this will be some useful.
[FONT='Bookman Old Style'] “Kanjar” is a name applied to an aggregate of vagrant tribes, a gypsy character, and probably Dravidian origin, which are found generally distributed throughtout India and Pakistan. The name “Kanjar” derived from Sanskrit word “Kanana-char” which denoted wanderers in jungle (Nesfield). Several historians have described the “Kanjars” as nomads, criminals and the ones practising prostitution. Shyamal Das (1982) considered “Kanjars” as forest dwellers. Todd (1929) identified the “Kanjars” as a caste engaged in the activities of dance, theft etc. Vyas (1986) observed that the “Kanjars” used to sing hereditary songs like “Meenas” and “Charans” in earlier times but later they resorted to criminal professions. Mewar Census (1941) described the “Kanjars” as a “sub-caste” which earned its livelihood by exhibiting its physical capabilities and begging”. There are several other historical references and descriptions about the “Kanjars” as nomads, forest dwellers, beggars, keepers and hereditary singers. “Kanjars” basically lives in North India and Pakistan.