Kanjar Community

I was hoping Gupshup Kulture King NYAhmadi would have given us an extensive rundown on Pakistan’s much appreciated Kanjar community, but sadly, and surprisingly, he doesn’t seem to know too much on this score.

Anyway, like I said, I saw a programme a few years back about Kanjaree dancing girls, and they were very good. Really modern looking, very sophisticated and according to this documentary, the kanjar men didn’t work, they lived off the earnings of their women. Does anybody have any more information about this?

Who can solve the riddle of the hidden Kanjar Question? ZZ? Sabah?? Roman??? Batman???

I throw open this debate to you, the valued members of Gupshup. :slight_smile:

“…the final frontier. To go where no man has gone before…”

Your Xtremely Inquisitive
Xplorer Xtreme

Dear Xtreme,

I'm afraid that I don't qualify as a 'valued member of Gupshup' since I'm unable to understand your 'hidden question'. Please be a bit more Xplicit.

If it's only the 'more information' you are looking for then I'm afraid (again) that I won't be able to provide you with such info as I'm not too much familiar with the whole 'kunjar community' kustoms or kulture.

If there is a hidden question then I’m ignoring it, coz this is an interesting topic, and definitely just as important as female prostitution.

I didn’t have any idea about this community, so I asked my parents :)And this is what I found out. Kanjars are like Kanjrees (what a stupid word yikes). The community you are asking about is Dalal community, you’re talking about pimps right?

Kanjar’s are dancers like females (I’ll use male and female notation instead). According to an article that I’ve read, selling male kid’s is ’very normal’ in some areas of Sindh and in some other parts in Pak – the dalal’s buy them in a very young age (fair skinned skinny boys are sold better the others), the dalals teach them different dances. And the good once perform mujrahs at private parties for waderas etc while others perform at less ’sophisticated places’. They don’t have kothas like females. They have very limited time to take ’advantage’ of their art as they loose their customers when they are around ehhh 13-14 (I’m not sure about this) unlike female kids. Only a few are lucky enough to be able to continue – that is if they have rich admires. So those who no longer can perform for the right crowed becomes street dancers – they perform at weddings and other gatherings. You must have seen Khusra’s some of them must be ex-kanjars.

According to the article prostitution is their only chance to survive and help their families. The dalals are interesting as no one really talks about them, even though they are the main link. They use humans and trash them when they no longer are useful.

Roman,

Forget the hidden question bit - that was a bit of a red herring. The interesting angle for me was that in the programme I saw was that the pimps for these dancers were in fact the male members of the family who didn’t actually work themselves. I thought that was a bit unfair. Why couldn’t they do their share? Set up a Kanjar gigolo service maybe? Or start a Pakistani version of The Chippendales? What do you think would be a good name for such a group? How about The Baingan Boys?

Sabah,

Thanks for your input. Very helpful as always. First time I have heard of the Dalal community. Yes I have seen the khusras - although I can’t say I have ever seen the attraction there. I would much rather watch the Kanjarees to be honest. Kanjarees aren’t very well respected in Pakistan are they? I can remember many times as a small child one of my less sophisticated aunties calling me a kanjar da puttar when i did something wrong

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif

But then if she was in a good mood she would say, "chal mera lal, dukan cho doodh leya te mai tere li saiviyah pakaoN gi :slight_smile:

ok

Yo Ny dewd, when ya gonna conjure more info bout kunjar community?

ok

Kudos NYA on your balanced and thoughtful perspective on the Kanjar Konundrum. That's more like it. It wouldn't have been right for you not to have your say on this important topic.

Your efforts in Heera Mani on my behalf will be greatly appreciated - at least those of the academic variety will be.

I will try to visit here more regularly in future. However, summer is here and that makes things a little more tricky. you don't think work would get in the way do you?

I think the views of someone from the sharp end would also offer an interesting perspective. While your in Heera Mandi see if you can track down Rundi Lahori. She will have some fascinating tales to tell I am sure.

p.s With lap dancers there is always some handy nooks and crannies where you can stick the dollar bills. When I pay your bill where do you want me to put the 500 rupiya note?

Good topic Xtremo! :)

BTW, I think i saw that documentary too--it was on BBC 2 right about "Pakistan's Kanjar Community". I wish they repeat it...

I remember them speaking to an oldish man who was introduced as Lahore's Head Kanjar (that made me giggle--becoz a common cuss is "too baRa kanjar aiN!!"); this was set in Hira Mandi if i remember correctly...

They also spoke to a few pakistani actresses as well who were originally from the kanjar community..

I think that although originally kanjars might have been dancers now it is another word for prostitution? All the tawaifs are from the Kanjar community, am i right NYA?

It is an interesting topic... :)

ok

NYA...your ON!! Give me your email and i'll get in touch!! :)

[but you must promise NOT to discuss religion at all then]

:)

This might be relevant. Taken From one of Mundyaa's posts in the General Forum

============================================

IN RURAL INDIA, TRADITIONS OF CHILD SEXUAL EXPLOITATION ENDURE
Scripps Howard News Service
By JOHN STACKHOUSE
Toronto Globe and Mail
SANGLI, India - The prettiest girl in this leafy, tropical town in western
India's sugar belt doesn't have much time to talk. Dressed in a stunning
mauve silk sari, with gold jewelry dripping from her ear lobes and nose,
18-year-old Chandra must get to work.

"My entire family depends on me," she said with a laugh as her alcoholic
mother stood at the doorway ordering her back to the family's brothel.

A prostitute since she was 12, Chandra expects to net the equivalent of $50
for her day's work, because in her state of Maharashtra it's the annual
snake festival and a time for local men to celebrate another good monsoon.

In an average month, Chandra figures she can bring home $500 - an amount
many of her customers don't earn in one year.

"My family, my brothers, they sit around all day and do nothing," continued
Chandra, who has a five-year-old son from her initiation as a commercial
sex worker. "Everything they have is from me."

Far from the chaotic brothels of Bombay and Calcutta, where many children
are kept in forced custody, Chandra represents what many experts say are
the majority of India's 100,000 or more child prostitutes: girls put to
work by their families for no other reason than the enormous, if brief,
profits they can earn.

They can be found at truck stops, dingy small-town hotels and roadside tea
stalls. They often do double duty as kitchen help and sex workers.

And they have little choice - not when their parents, siblings and other
relatives depend so much on their earning power.

With her movie star looks, Chandra was virtually destined to become a sex
worker at the age of 12. It was her mother's occupation, too.

But as with many Indian children, she wasn't sold directly into
prostitution. Instead, Chandra's mother confirmed her as a "devadasi," a
Hindu temple servant who before reaching puberty is dedicated for life to
the goddess Yallamma.

Traditionally, the divine and elaborate marriage would transport a
low-caste girl such as Chandra into a devotional career of temple singing
and dancing. In modern times, the outlawed ritual, which is believed to
absorb as many as 10,000 girls a year, often means sexual enslavement to a
temple priest or prostitution.

The devadasi system is only one of countless traditions of child sexual
exploitation in rural India that seem sure to endure, driven by the
economics of poverty, tyranny of caste and compulsions of culture and
religion.

============================================

Seems like that documentary was right about the male members of families acting as pimps. Still...at least the money's kept in the family.

Anybody have anything else to add?

That programme was aired on BBC2. Other than what NYA mentioned on this subject I don't know much else. I did get called a kanjar da puttar lots of times though.

I found out about Kanjars a few months ago. The little bit research I did, I found that Kanjar is a caste in old India when caste and profession went hand in hand.
Apparently like any other caste of India, they had their own rules and values. Anyway, if you guys are really interested I can look up my notes. It will take time.

** DISGUSTING**

i far as i know there is a substantial number of kanjar community in india. whether they are the same kanjaris or diff i have no clue .
but surely there is a locality of kanjars in bombay called "kanjarwadi"

I didnt understand Extreme bhais hidden question, but Ill share my thoughts on this topic.

I have been to weddings where they have called these (I dont want to use this word for some reason, so ill say K as a substitute).

I found that many people, who were otherwise very religious and 'perhezgar' were having fun with these Ks dancing and they were throwing out money generously. I felt very bad, and I had the courage to ask one of them why he was doing so, eventhough he was a religious person. The reason he gave was that it was an occasion of joy. How does this justify what they were doing? I do not believe that these people, who offer prayers five times a day are in any way better than a Muslim, who is not so punntual in his Namaz, but atleast doesnt believe in these Ks dancing about. The money they waste on these women is unimaginable, and if they give it to the poor, I am sure they can light the 'chollah' (over) for a lot of days.

What you are talking about is Kusras, Spock. They are cross-dressers who dance at weddings.

Kanjar community is something different (at least on the programme it came across that way). And kanjar is definitely used as a curse word by people in Pakistan just like other caste based insults. There's no need to look for hidden questions btw, look at Sabah's post and you'll see some decent info there.

kunjar - now i remember this word from somewhere

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rotfl.gif

from the days when newp used to conjure up his magic somewhere in a distant cybersapce

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif


** But now I have learned to listen to silence. To hear its choirs singing the song of ages, chanting the hymns of space and disclosing the secrets of eternity..
* Khalil Gibran***