Does anyone have information about the status of kaneez and bandis in qaroon-e-ula and later centuries?
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
plz re-post the question in a more understandable way....
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
this is an inquiry and request for further information on status of slaves (specifically women)during early islamic era and in the following centuries
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
Yes. but basic knowledge. Like why and when and when stopped etc.
What is your specific question regarding them?
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
People were allowed to have sexual relations with them?
As Ibne Ziyad is said to be a son of a bandi?
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
[quote=Mostar95]
People were allowed to have sexual relations with them?
definately
As Ibne Ziyad is said to be a son of a bandi?/quote]
which ibne ziyad?
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
only if they were willing. it was a discouraged practice though, since you were encouraged to set your slaves free.
Slavery is no longer around. Why? Are you planning for when the supposed fantasy khalifa takes over and makes those big bad westerners their slaves?
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
Slavery is no longer around. Why? Are you planning for when the supposed fantasy khalifa takes over and makes those big bad westerners their slaves?
how was it discouraged it was widely practicised
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
"widely" practiced? Are you kidding me? What makes you say that?
Its an inherent logical contradiction. If God is giving you rewards for setting your slaves free, then would He want you to have sex with them at the same time? Doesn't make much sense.
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
In the early Islamic periods, as it relates to most of our recorded history, slaves were mostly captives. The two terms can be considered synonymous.
A female captive was akin to a wife. This also applied to Muslim captives held by Pagans, and seems to have been the cultural practice at the time. I've been scouring for some time looking for evidence that the early Muslim females were concerned of their honor or stature after being captives...no luck so far.
It would seem lack of such evidence would imply that in fact being a captive (and the implication being sexually active ouside of wedlock with a captor) was no big deal...it's simply what was done.
Mecca/Medina were also on trading routes, and so invariably slaves woud be obtained from this source.
Having said that, mannumition IS an important act of faith...and so if the opposite of discouraging is encouraging, perhaps it's safe to say Islam (and perhaps only Islam) explcitly leans toward discouraging. :)
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
how was it discouraged it was widely practicised
I think if we take out the simplistic slave=captive equation I suggested in another post, the attitude of Islam towards slavery takes a rather complex turn.
Whereas slavery was permitted, we are then confronted with
[quote]
024.033YUSUFALI: Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),
PICKTHAL: And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[/quote]
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
Was there a hudood law then?
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
I don't know which ibne Ziyadh you are referring to. If it is the one who Shias believe to be involved in the karbala incident then I don't know much about him.
as for whether sexual relations with female slaves were in existence/allowed, yes.
Here is some explanation. PreIslamic history shows, slave women/girls were common just like slave men. Their status was lower than that of animals in many cases. Their male owners had sex with them at will and bore children from them who in turn in some cases were treated as slaves.
Islam brought their emancipation through a gradual introduction of privilages and rights for them and making their freedom a source for expiation of sins and compensation (kaffarah).
Just like the prohibitions of other things, the condemnations for slavery came slowly to allow for enough faith and reliance on Allah SWT to develop before the act is completely renounced.
So yes, the "bandi" or slave woman/girl was in wedlock without a nikaah. This was the state of affairs that human beings were engaged in then. (side note: In a way pimps still keep their prostitutes in a state of slavery even today - although not legally) Wedlock here meaning she was in a sexual contract with her owner along with the services she provided.
The Quran refers to them as "those whom your right hand possesses". Gradually as their (all slaves) rights were increased, there came a point when it was being realized that it was almost certain for them to be entitled for inheritance as well. Earlier to this, islam gave them the chance to free them selves with ransom from the money they earned and that the children born from them were not slaves. The justice of Islam and humanity that it brought through the incredible compassion of Rasul Allah SWT for all creation (Rehmatal Lil aalameen) showed people that not enslaving people was what Allah SWT loved and was what would bring them closer to Allah. Rasul Allah SAW showed by example. He adopted Zaid ibn Haritha who was brought to him initially as a slave captured when he seperated from his family in a tribal war.
It is reported that Rasul Allah SAW showed him so much love that even after his real father came to get him, Zaid asked to stay with the prophet SAW. (although some of this is preislamic - it set a precedence by the man chosen by Allah SWT as the leader of the Prophets).
So now in the muslim world we see slavery is completely illegal and prohibited.
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
Here is some explanation. PreIslamic history shows, slave women/girls were common just like slave men. Their status was lower than that of animals in many cases. Their male owners had sex with them at will and bore children from them who in turn in some cases were treated as slaves. Islam brought their emancipation through a gradual introduction of privilages and rights for them and making their freedom a source for expiation of sins and compensation (kaffarah). Just like the prohibitions of other things, the condemnations for slavery came slowly to allow for enough faith and reliance on Allah SWT to develop before the act is completely renounced. So yes, the "bandi" or slave woman/girl was in wedlock without a nikaah. This was the state of affairs that human beings were engaged in then. (side note: In a way pimps still keep their prostitutes in a state of slavery even today - although not legally) Meaning she was in a sexual contract with her owner. The Quran refers to them as "those whom your right hand possesses". Gradually as their rights were increased, there came a point when it was being realized that it was almost certain for them to be entitled for inheritance as well. Earlier to this, islam gave them the chance to free them selves with ransom from the money they earned. The justice of Islam and humanity that it brought through the incredible compassion of Rasul Allah SWT for all creation (Rehmatal Lil aalameen) showed people that not enslaving people was what Allah SWT loved and was what would bring them closer to Allah. So now in the muslim world we see slavery is completely illegal and prohibited.
Nice explanation. Could you shed some more light on the sentence in bold please. Thanks. JAK.
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
It is in mentioned in ahadeeth that the sahabah thought from the way rights were being given to the slaves that Allah SWt might give them a share in inheritence as well. If you are really interested we can look up the hadeeths.
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
antumul's explanation is right on target.
Hence, why I say the practice was discouraged. Not outright banned right away, like much else. But gradually, it was a practice that was weeded out. Sort of like alcohol, etc.
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
Can you please give the chronolgy of the banning of salvery? When alcohal can be banned outright, why slavery was left for centuries?
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
alcohol once it became banned its use amongst the muslims stopped immediatly so that argument is invalid.....regarding sahaba keeping slavegirls/boys there are numerous examples of that...esp after the conquests in syria and persia
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
What example please?
They abondoned it?
Re: Kaneez/Bandi
Slavery was common in all the nations of that time and not just the Muslims. People were actually traded for maney . It was certainly degrading to mankind and was therefore discouraged eventually abandoned.
In any case now-a-days house keepers don't fall into that category. They are more of employees working for a salary. So sexual relations are a definite no no....