Not that I favor trodding on ancient culture,
but if there was ever a reason for Islam,
this is one. I think the death penalty is a
bit stiff a sentence, but other laws could be put in place to achieve the same result.
This is illegal in the USA still, I think.
The Taliban would not have drawn as much
attention if not for Bin Laden etc.
It has been and is practiced all over Afghanistan not just Qandahar. Its nothing like the Burqah, the Burqah is part of their religion and has become a tradition. Burqah is practiced by most Pashtoons, this is not, and is not only limited to Pashtoons nor Afghanistan.
Pashtoons dominated Taliban, and they were all against it. Mullah Omar their Ameer (Supreme leader) was a Pashtoon, he was against. Matter of fact, these were few of the main reasons why the Taliban came to Afghanistan and took over so fast. Just like everyone else in Afghanistan, the Qandaharis supported their movement because they like everyone else were sick and tired of the filth they were living in.
Qandahar was the holy city of the Taliban, because that’s where the movement started. That was their leader’s home and that was where they first established their rule. It was not because of the young boys.
If all Qandaharis were boy lovers, they would have never supported the Taliban and would have never let Qandahar become their strong hold.
Average Qandaharis and Afghans did not share this interest of molesting young boys with the warlords (the molesters) that were left in power by the world and their best friend (America), so they can deal with the poor Afghan people.
Many more worst and worst cases will come out over the months, since now the f**ked up so-called “civilized world” has gotten some interest in this poor miserably country. I just can’t help but imagine that where were all these hypocrites including these reporters 20 years ago? It was worst back then! NA sold so many young Afghan girls that Tajikistan became the world largest supplier and trafficker.
Also, the word/term “ashna” doesn’t mean a boy/gay lover. The closest I can come up to translate is the Urdu term “jaan”. “Ashna” can be used for a very close friend, partner, boy and girl. It also means companion. Just because ashna is the termed used for their lovers, doesn’t mean that that’s what it stands for.
We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
[This message has been edited by yOuNgBrAt (edited January 15, 2002).]
Akif,
"America's basic premise for its massive attacks on Afghanistan was that they wanted to 'free the poor afghans from the clutches of the brutal taliban'"
No, we went there to blow up the terrorists who blew us up. But, the Taliban were also a repressive regime, and defeating them also made for a better future. I just kind of find it funny that a bunch of perverts come out of the woodwork, and we have a bunch of people saying "Gee, see the Taliban had some redeeming qualities." Just for the record, the CIA did not drop little pamphlets TELLING the perverts it was OK to do this now. I hope Islamic law has a particularly nasty punishment for the exploiters of children. The fact that this scum started this immediately after the Taliban left means that the Taliban did not change behavior, just forced it underground.
During the transition to a new government there will be chaos. There is virtually no police force, no standing army, no banking, telephones that barely work, add to that vitually no water, electricity, or hygiene facilities. The court system needs to be reestablished, and people are barely getting fed.
On the other hand, there is some hope that the entire country can be rebuilt, and there is a future that is a little brighter. It will be a long hard road to reconstitute the entire infrastructure of a country.
Americans are in Afghanistan to avenge 911 but when they BS how they are librating the oppressed and show on TV how they helped women remove burqa, they are only fooling themself.
I bet given the choice Afghans will chose lesser of the two evils.
In a regime where at least birds can fly with both wings.
Interestingly enough..
it was said by the head of the judiciary .. who have not been removed after the taliban left.. that Afghanistan remains an Islamic country.. and all Islamic laws would still be applicable..
and it has been affirmed by the new president.
i don’t get this. How do Americans or any outsiders care how gay or staright Afghans are?
This ‘Burqa’ thing is given prominence because it makes a good story.
I don’t think anybody cares how Afghans treat their women. It is upto them.
I don’t get one thing though. How can Taliban ever be sure that if a middle aged man and a young boy are together, that young boy is not the ‘ashna’?
Did they put a ban on middle aged married men and unmarried young boys being together in public?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
Don’t you see the whole silliness comes from peering under somebody’s pants, women or men, gay or straight?
OhioGuy is right. The Taleban was stopping the country from progressing. Do you really believe that when the Taleban was in power these things were not happening behind closed doors? Give me a break. It is not America's fault that there are men there that like young boys. It is sin...that is no one's fault but the person who chooses it. Do you think that when one of these men enters heaven's door...that God will look at him and say...oh you molested a young boy for years..but I understand because America gave you that right. HA!! That person makes his decision with or without the Taleban or Western influence.
[quote]
Originally posted by UndoneByOne:
*OhioGuy is right. The Taleban was stopping the country from progressing. Do you really believe that when the Taleban was in power these things were not happening behind closed doors? Give me a break. It is not America's fault that there are men there that like young boys. It is sin...that is no one's fault but the person who chooses it. Do you think that when one of these men enters heaven's door...that God will look at him and say...oh you molested a young boy for years..but I understand because America gave you that right. HA!! That person makes his decision with or without the Taleban or Western influence. *
[/quote]
According to the article, the Taleban were actively putting a stop to this pedophilia. Now the new regime, led by an alleged pedo, is relaxing restrictions. Now, i don't need to argue with you on taleban stopping progress - you are probably right. But learn to give credit where it is due, and in this case, Taleban were clearly right in acting against this behaviour.
And it might not be America's fault that this stuff goes on, but as America paid these warlords to overthrow the Taleban, then yes it does have some responsibility for the new authority's apparent encouragement of pedophilia.
[quote]
Originally posted by UndoneByOne:
....Do you really believe that when the Taleban was in power these things were not happening behind closed doors? Give me a break.
Please read the article again, it says that when Taleban were in power they controlled such behavior 'in public', but if someone was doing behind doors it was not accessible by Taleban. So the 'child-molesting' was stopped from being public/freely.
It is not America's fault that there are men there that like young boys.
of course, and its NOT America's fault whatever happened in Afghanistan. America chose to be partners with Northern Alliance, why? when America has all the sophisticated technology, weapons etc why did she need Northern Alliance?
It is sin...that is no one's fault but the person who chooses it. Do you think that when one of these men enters heaven's door...that God will look at him and say...oh you molested a young boy for years..but I understand because America gave you that right.
Just a side note, 'child molesters' or any molester will not enter "Heaven" (at least not until he/she is punished for it, or GOD's mercy).
......
[/quote]
May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right
The article states:
"Kandahar’s Pashtuns have been notorious for their homosexuality for centuries."
If I am not mistaken, one of the big bones of contention when the NA was sweeping though northern Afghanistan toward Kabul was that it did not represent the majority Pashtuns. Pashtuns were supposed to be the main supporters of the Taliban and were supposed to fight against the NA and the US.
As part of the new power sharing interim alliance that has been formed, the Pashtun warlords are principally in control of Khandahar and surrounding areas. There are no similar reports of this pathetic behavior in areas controlled by the NA.
That being the case, why would people be blaming the NA or the new government or the US for this activity? Certainly the Taliban did not send this centuries old behaviour behind closed doors the first day, week, or month that it was in power administering laws. There is a war still going on in Afghanistan and the new interim government has not had the opportunity to extend law and order to most of the country yet. It was just put in place on what (December 22)?
It is my understanding that homosexuality violates Islamic law. Certainly, same sex pedophilia must rank ahead of that in terms of recognized crimes. Fact is, whoever these whacko Pashtun pedophiles are, they are not good Muslims and they are breaking Islamic law. Don't you think you should give the new government a little slack here in getting in place a police force and court system to enforce the laws? If they choose not to enforce the laws when they get in a position to do so and/or they overlook this form of pedophilia, then I would expect that criticism would be mandatory.
I would suggest that a short term loss of control over certain aspects of law and order is to be expected given the upheaval that has occured and is occuring in Afghanistan. The fact that there has not been mass intertribal warfare and massacres that many predicted would surely follow the fall of the Taliban is pretty stunning. If the worst thing that can be said about the new government is that it has been unable to prevent a temporary (???) return of a centuries old Pashtun tradition of pedophilia in Kandahar, this indicates that they are doing pretty good, don't you think?
If the worst thing that can be said about the new government is that it has been unable to prevent a temporary (???) return of a centuries old Pashtun tradition of pedophilia in Kandahar, this indicates that they are doing pretty good, don’t you think? <<
Not even that. How can the Government stop this behaviour even if it wants to.
They can’t put a ban on Men and boys being together noe can they?
[quote]
Originally posted by Abdali:
** How about also shooting who ever supports that Gul guy. Oh well if you follow that logic it will lead you back to US.
**
[/quote]
Go ahead you'll end up shooting half the pashtuns since its part of their culture.This crap was going on long before America so your logic blaming America is BS put the blame were it belongs with Agha and the pashtuns that support it. So now Americas responsible for everybodies moral actions in Afghanistan thats just plain stupid there responsible for themselves and the people around them are responsible for letting it happen.
When nations are troubled, americans criticize them for not getting off their asses and doing something for themselves. When they do; and americans don't particularly like what they are doing, they forcefully remove them from power and then sit back and criticize them again for not taking care of themselves.
Don't meddle and you'll not be held responsible. Meddle, and take responsibility of the bad with the good.
This Space For Rent
Pakistani Abroad,
"Don't meddle and you'll not be held responsible. Meddle, and take responsibility of the bad with the good."
"I would also like to address the international community, particularly the United States on this occasion. They must play an active role in solving the Kashmir dispute for the sake of lasting peace and harmony in the Region."---Pres Musharraf
OK, which is is? Because it sure sounds like an invitation to "meddle" was issued by your President? Do you understand? On another thread, someone was asking why we did not "meddle" more to overthrow the Arab regimes he was not fond of.... Never mind, I think I get it. You want us to "meddle" when it suits your agenda, but not "meddle" when you disagree.
I agree with PakistaniAbroad. US should have no right to meddle in any country’s internal affairs or problems (whether asked for or not). However, the attack on Taliban was totally justified. Kill them all. They try to mess up with the UsofA. If they had not harbored terrorists who committed crimes against America, Taliban will still be in power. If Taliban want to commit attacks against other Islamic countries, so be it. USA should stay out of it. It should only intervene/retaliate when it’s own citizens are attacked. There’s a talk in Congress to pull out of Saudi Arabia. Which I believe will be a move in the right direction. Saudis are partly to be blamed for rise of Fanatical terrorism.
[quote]
Originally posted by Ohioguy:
*Pakistani Abroad,
OK, which is is? Because it sure sounds like an invitation to "meddle" was issued by your President? Do you understand? On another thread, someone was asking why we did not "meddle" more to overthrow the Arab regimes he was not fond of.... Never mind, I think I get it. You want us to "meddle" when it suits your agenda, but not "meddle" when you disagree. *
[/quote]
Good reply.
This is my first reply to the first post:
The treatment meted out to helpless boys just show that:
the society is sexually segregated, and because of lack of any women, helpless boys r the logical preys. This brings out the point, why talibans did not ask young boys to cover themselves like women? after all young boys were alluring men!!
Legal Marriage in pushtoon society is all about how much the groom can pay to the girl's father/uncle. I have known many pushtoon young men who work in katrachi to earn some money to marry.
Pushtoon soiety is very cruel to helpless sections of the society.
[This message has been edited by FreeMind (edited January 16, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
**
There’s a talk in Congress to pull out of Saudi Arabia. Which I believe will be a move in the right direction. Saudis are partly to be blamed for rise of Fanatical terrorism.**
[/quote]
well why don't they do just that? Pull out of SA and prove the lie that Osama has been spouting?
[quote]
Originally posted by FreeMind:
**This is my first reply to the first post:
The treatment meted out to helpless boys just show that:
- the society is sexually segregated, and because of lack of any women, helpless boys r the logical preys. This brings out the point, why talibans did not ask young boys to cover themselves like women? after all young boys were alluring men!!
**
[/quote]
Lack of women? Werent there a surplus of women there? With all the men who died due to 20 years of war ?
i mean women r and were not in public places. No one can see them much less approach them for courtship/friendship.