Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

It was amazing to see many TV personalities acting like Taliban apologists after this attack. They could not deny Taliban’s hand because Taliban themselves took responsibility, but they managed to drag America into the discussion by claiming that Taliban did this on behalf of America.
These people still live in denial that the problem Pakistan is facing today is INTERNAL only.

With this attitude of so many TV personalities putting blame on America instead of Taliban, it is not surprising that Pakistan has no hope of getting rid of Taliban rebellion in future.

We continue to live in fool’s paradise.


Editorial:
Kamra attack
This was the fourth attack involving the base, which was foretold by intelligence reports in great detail, naming names and locating the germinating spot in North Waziristan under the leadership of the Taliban chief, Hakimullah Mehsud. The assailants were killed but not before they had penetrated the outer wall of the base and entered the facility.
Unlike the attack on the Mehran naval base earlier, which took 17 hours to clear, the suicide bombers were not able to hold the base but were quickly disposed of in 20 minutes. The worrying fact, however, was that despite very detailed intelligence, the terrorists were able to climb over the wall.** The Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) proudly owned the attack, timing it with reports that Pakistan was getting ready to launch an operation in North Waziristan**.
The TV discussions that followed ignored a whole lot of straightforward information and chose instead to repeat the charge that the TTP was working for Pakistan’s external enemies. Retired military officers and TV anchors trundled out the usual frog-chorus of how the Americans were paying the likes of Hakimullah Mehsud and getting his suicide bombers to attack Pakistan’s military installations.** A report in The New York Times,** which had pointed to a rumour that Pakistan was storing its nuclear arsenal at Kamra, was made the basis of how Americans were converging to a strategy of ‘taking out’ Pakistan’s nuclear deterrence. What was ignored was an official statement from Washington that Pakistan’s nuclear weapons were safe because they were not at Kamra.
The designation of the ‘enemy’ was arrived at all over again in the face of years of hard evidence to the contrary. It was America, the eternal enemy of the Muslims in general and Pakistan in particular. Tagged to the US were two other ideological and religious enemies: India and Israel. All the previous attacks were also attributed to America, making the discussion absurd. Without proof, the miracle of concocting a mindset of our choice has been achieved. Now, the entire nation believes that its tormentor is not the Taliban who continue to shout from rooftops that they are staging attacks because Pakistan continues to be an ally of the US. Amazingly, the TV discussions after the Kamra attack embraced the Taliban point of view that Pakistan was suffering because of its abjectly slavish policy of following orders from Washington.
Shockingly, Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who had said on August 14 that Pakistan’s crisis was internal, related to a general embrace of extremism and violence, was indirectly attacked for presumably planning to stage an operation against the terrorists in North Waziristan. He was guilty of telling us the truth: that** the trouble in Pakistan was of our own making and had to be tackled internally**. The discussants countered that by saying that if the army chief wanted to confront the terrorists in North Waziristan, he must approach the elected government and ask it to ‘go to the people’ and take their consent to the operation. Reference was made to earlier parliamentary resolutions mandating the army to stop drone attacks on Pakistani territory and demand that US-Nato forces respect Pakistan’s territorial sovereignty.
The main opposition party, the PML-N, has already told the army chief not to attack the terrorists in North Waziristan despite intelligence reports that the Taliban will attack the PMLN-ruled Punjab in the near future. Punjab’s inspector general of police, after receiving the reports, conveniently took off for umrah in Saudi Arabia. Parliament has not framed laws that could prevent the acquittal of killers in the court of law; now, the politicians feel that North Waziristan should not be attacked by the army. If you ask the people, the reply is likely to be not in support of any operation — without any blame attaching to the ordinary Pakistani, poisoned by the lies pouring out of a section of our manipulated media and mainstream curricula.
Published in The Express Tribune, August 18[SUP]th[/SUP], 2012.

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

I just had a long exhausting discussion with some people who believe this fantasy that Taliban are taking their marching orders from America.

In the end, they could not present a single iota of evidence to back up this claim.

whats worse, nor could they produce any media news story that backs up this claim.

Even propoganda Russia RT and Iran PressTV are not going to produce a news story this absurd. :D

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

Pakistan badly needs "managed" media like in China & I won't be least bit sad if some of the tv stations are shut down starting with Geo.

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

the problem with pakistani media is that they opinion driven instead of news driven.

so they don't report the facts, they report news through the prism of people with their own opinions

and those people are not credible and always add their own conspiracy spin to everything....which makes everything a jumbled mess

Re: Kamra attack: “Taliban TV (at your service)”

I have been thinking about this issue for a few days, there seems to be a disconnect in fact a very big gulf between the so called “liberals” and the “right wing”. The people who should have been between the two extremes are diminishing with the passage of time. If we read the articles of English Newspapers it seems as if one is reading CIA propaganda and on the other side if you read Urdu Newspapers (most people have got access to this media) and watch TV the situation seems to be entirely different.

The government has done nothing to market the war, so much so that the war has taken so many important turns during this government’s tenure but I dont remember the president and prime minister come on TV and explain to the people as to what is happening. The result is that the army and the government might be thinking at a certain angle but the people (I am talking about a big majority) dont agree with them, and hence the war has not become popular even after 12 years.

General Kayani in Kakul – The Express Tribune

Given the ground realities in Pakistan, the traditional terms of reference for a discussion on civil-military balance in the national polity stand virtually suspended. The decision to commit Pakistan to what once was glibly dubbed the Global War on Terror was taken by a president whose legitimacy began and ended with his being in command of the army. The manner in which he took this fateful decision marginalised, ab initio, the civilian institutions.

The subsequent prolongation of the conflict and its spillover into Pakistan with Pakistani territory lost to anti-state militants created a situation of total dependence on the armed forces. Sacrifices made by the army in reclaiming the lost territory — a work still in progress — have eclipsed anything that the political class might have done. Add to this, the fact that the PPP-led coalition has, since 2008, remained disproportionately preoccupied with sheer survival, defence of what was harvested through the ill-fated National Reconciliation Ordinance and, on the positive side, with tidying up the constitutional mess left behind by General Pervez Musharraf. You know now why the civilian grip on foreign and national security issues continues to be so tenuous. Despite Pakistan’s sad experience of military rule in the past, a surprisingly large percentage of its people are once again beginning to look to the army for deliverance from an elected government that has disappointed them deeply.

It was against this backdrop that General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani delivered his address to the Kakul Independence Day parade. He touched upon several key issues and spoke to audiences across the country. As before, he conveyed the concern of the armed forces about the dire situation in the country — the perilous state of economy, misgovernance, corruption, rapid deterioration of civic amenities — without actually raising the spectre of military intervention or even hinting at a roadmap, that the military would support to salvage the state. This restraint and continued respect for constitutionalism augur well for Pakistan’s troubled democracy.

General Kayani spent quite some time on defining extremism and terrorism and on distinguishing between them. In an atmosphere of pervasive distrust, there has been some talk that the army’s resolve to be guided solely by national interest while assisting US-Nato operations has weakened and that the Kakul address was designed to prepare the armed forces and the people for a new military campaign in North Waziristan. Statements by US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta and commentaries in the American media have reinforced this impression. The issue needs further consideration.

If the benchmark is Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s vision of a state based on equity, tolerance and social justice, General Kayani was right in maintaining that the nation has yet to realise the agenda of 1947. The analysis would, however, have been more complete if he had used this occasion to align the armed forces strongly with the view that the roots of extremism that have morphed into terrorism on such a large scale in Pakistan, are also to be found in the staggering deficit in investment in education, health, research and social welfare over many long decades. This deficit has created a huge pool of socially-challenged citizens who can be exploited by men of violence in our midst.

Since several critics in Pakistan routinely blame this neglect of comprehensive national development on the armed forces, it is appropriate that military leaders weigh heavily on the side of radically strengthening these sectors of non-traditional security for all people and not just the privileged elite living in gated communities. Terrorism in Pakistan has not come solely from the much-maligned mullah; more than one political party in Pakistan inculcated intolerance and violence in poorly educated and disadvantaged masses to advance parochial agendas; these political interests showcase their success regularly in Karachi. Backwardness of society was also a boon for Pakistan’s military dictators.

General Kayani has rightly said that nothing is more difficult for the army than to battle our own people. All the precepts of the doctrine of ‘Just War’ (jus ad bellum) and how it is conducted (jus in bello) assume added dimensions when the state resorts to the use of force within its own territory. Admittedly, the extraordinary criminalisation of anti-state movements like the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan entitles the state to deploy counter-force. But military campaigns put an extra premium on justification, as well as on the principle of proportionality that every state functionary should be fully familiar with. General Kayani did well to remind the people that they must support the armed forces in their mission against terrorism. The people, in turn, expect that military operations in Pakistan are acts of last resort and that they conform to the time-honoured principles of just wars and also the letter and spirit of Pakistan’s own Constitution.

**Unfortunately, foreign powers have been able to create a vocal lobby in Pakistan that is largely indifferent to Pakistani losses and that still gives priority to what by now is a fast unravelling regional project of the so-called international community. Repeated Gallup polls show that what the people demand is different. For them, the martyrdom of every single soldier must be audited as, indeed, the death of every innocent citizen caught up in a conflict that is not understood even after a horrendous decade.

**
Pakistan’s chequered history has produced a binary approach to civil authority and the armed forces. The fact of the matter is that these two centres of power have to be in total harmony to overcome the internal challenge of extremism and terrorism as well the threats from outside. It is fashionable to say that there are no external threats any more. Regrettably there are threats from enemies as well as from short-sighted ‘friends’ who want to convert Pakistan into a pliant, weakened and denuclearised mercenary state available for their regional projects. In this unfavourable context, anything that produces a disconnect between the people and the armed forces can only add to the current fragility of the state.
Published in The Express Tribune, August 18[SUP]th[/SUP], 2012.

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

neither could you. I am more anti Taliban than you are but I do not worship Americans.

Re: Kamra attack: “Taliban TV (at your service)”

In Iraq, US raised private armies to take on Sunni militias there and to weaken the insurgency. I will not be surprised if they have contacts with TTP, this could be tacit support or some agreement that they wont touch them if they dont create problems for them in the areas which are not in their control.

Awakening Movement in Iraq - Breaking World Awakening Movement News - The New York Times

As far as Pakistan is concerned, they are never doing enough to secure Afghanistan for the Americans, but on the other hand they have been releasing terrorists and working with them to take on other groups for the past many years.

US secretly releasing Taliban fighters, report says | Fox News

Afghanistan War: US Secretly Released Detainees From Military Prison

**WASHINGTON, May 7 (Reuters) - The United States has been secretly releasing detainees from a military prison in Afghanistan as part of negotiations with insurgent groups, the Washington Post reported in its Monday editions.
**
**The “strategic release” program has allowed American officials over the past several years to use prisoners as bargaining chips to reduce violence in restive provinces, it said, citing U.S. officials who it said spoke on condition of anonymity.
**
The freed detainees are often fighters who would not be released under the legal system for military prisoners in Afghanistan. They must promise to give up violence, the report said.

**Officials would not say whether those who have been released have later returned to attack U.S. and Afghan troops, the Post said.
**
Releases have come amid efforts to end the war through negotiation, which is central to the Obama administration’s strategy for exiting Afghanistan, the report said.

Those efforts have yielded little to no progress in recent years. In part, they have been stymied by the unwillingness of the United States to release five prisoners from Guantanamo Bay - a gesture insurgent leaders have said they see as a precondition for peace talks, the report said.

Unlike at Guantanamo, releasing prisoners from the Parwan detention center does not require congressional approval and can be done secretly, the Post said.

The program’s goal is to quell violence in areas where NATO is unable to ensure security. Releases are intended to produce tactical gains, the Post said.
U.S. officials would not say how many detainees have been released under the program, though they said such cases are relatively rare. The program has existed for several years.

“The Afghans have come to us with information that might strengthen the reconciliation process,” the newspaper quoted U.S. Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker as saying. “Many times we do act on it.”

Releases through the secret program from Parwan must be approved by the top U.S. military commander and military lawyer, and are the only exceptions to the prison’s judicial review board, the Post said.

It quoted one official as saying the procedure was “outside of our normal protocol,” the paper said.

(Reporting By John Crawley; Editing by Eric Walsh)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/secret-us-program-releases-high-level-insurgents-in-exchange-for-pledges-of-peace/2012/05/06/gIQAFfJn6T_story_1.html

Re: Kamra attack: “Taliban TV (at your service)”

As far as the conspiracy theories regarding the nukes falling into the hands of terrorists is concerned, its fuelled by the statement of Panetta and the way how western media has generally portrayed the Kamra attacks. This could have been due to some coincidence but it was sure to generate a debate, you can call it a conspiracy theory.

Pakistan’s nukes might fall into hands of terrorists: Panetta - Times Of India

Pakistan militants attack alleged nuclear weapons storage site - baltimoresun.com

And then the Americans have reiterated a number of times to the COAS and other high profile military officials that if they feel any danger of the weapons falling into the hands of terrorists they will act to secure them.

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

Americans may have some contacts and some level of Taliban leadership to negotiate some sort of deal, but it does not mean that Americans are behind attacks on Pakistani military and government. Pakistan never blamed America and Taliban never hinted as such.
Look at it this way: Americans want Pakistan to start operation against Taliban in N Waziristan. Why would they want this operation if Taliban were working for them?
Similarly, after this Kamra attack, Taliban said that it was done to warn Pakistan government not to start operation in N Waziristan. Why would Taliban want something against US wishes if Taliban are working for US?


If Americans want to use Iraq lessons then they would rather work with local tribal militias in Pakistan rather than Taliban. In fact, it is not US but Pakistan which using the lessons from Iraq in supporting local militias against Taliban.

A bit more detail:
Al Qaeda was a big part of insurgency in Iraq. Sunni Iraqis initially worked with them but later started detesting them becausheld their extremism and radicalism. US used this dissatisfaction to raise militias against Qaeda. And these militias played leading role in diminishing the role of Qaeda in Iraq.
The radical extremist role Qaeda played in Iraq is being played by Taliban in Pakistan. If comparison is to be drawn between Iraq and Pakistan then US should be supporting local tribal militias in Pakistan against extremist Taliban who are hand in hand with Qaeda here.


I have a lot of reservations on US foreign policy but Taliban problem is Pakistan's own problem. It is pointless to try to see American hands in the doings of Taliban.

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

Agreed 100%.

The problem is that Pakistanis in general (a vast majority of us) from an average joe on street, journalistic who work for news paper, TV news anchors and the ones on online forums are for generations are very very inclined to find a (any) non Pakistani element like CIA/USA/Raw/India and at times non Islamic eg: Involvement of Saudi and UAE in financing the extremism element to point fingers at.

Re: Kamra attack: “Taliban TV (at your service)”

The Sunni Tribes in Iraq allied with America after the barbarity of Al Qaeda became clear.

You are making the wrong comparison.

The comparison should be between those anti-Taliban tribes that Pakistan is trying to support vs the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Every other day, Taliban suicide bombers are trying to kill these anti-Taliban leaders.

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

Actually I did. :D

Too bad, you couldn't find any takers for this absurd conspiracy theory. Not even American enemies like Iran and Russia are going to come up with a conspiracy theory so absurd.

If this was indeed happening, shouldn't any of the anti-american news media have picked it up by now?

I mean, why doesn't Pakistan present evidence to the world media about american duplicity, I am sure there will be many takers to malign America.

Re: Kamra attack: “Taliban TV (at your service)”

Pakistani Nukes are De-Mated Nukes.

With the Warhead, Trigger Keys, and Delivery Mechanisms all kept in separate but very secure locations.

You need all 3 to make a deliverable nuclear weapon, and all the other components are useless without the other two.

And besides, if the Taliban manage to break into a Nuclear Silo and steal the Warhead in their attempt to make a dirty bomb, that RadioActive Signature will be easily be picked up by American Satellites.

In essence, there is no chance that the Taliban can steal and detonate a Pakistani Nuclear Weapon

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

Finally some sane Pakistanis on Gupshup who do not use conspiracy theories as a crutch to explain away Pakistan's failures.

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

Ignorance is bliss. Carry on worshipping them. Just like you can find many links from american bias media against Pakistan there are many links the other way As well. Too bad you dont consider any media apart form the bias American media. Go and google it and you will find it. I am not going to do the work for you and anyway there is nothing you will believe that is against America. Others have given links but you are in denial so carry on. You might be an American apologist but I will tell you some thing, I and my family have gone through hell because of Taliban so please keep all this holier than thou attitude to yourself. I hate them but I keep my eyes open and do not worship uncle sam unconditionally.

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

Meray aurghay kee eik hee tang, so long as America is not cirticised everything is fine.

Re: Kamra attack: “Taliban TV (at your service)”

You mean TTP will admit their being support by America? :hehe:

You still can differentiate Taliban (Haqqani) and TTP, can you?

While at the same time TTP said it was done to revenge killing of OBL. Again, TTP != Taliban (Afgh/Haqqani)

TTP was setup to destabilize Pakistan, local militias are not going to do that bidding.

Yes, TTP are Pakistan’s problem, they need to be eliminated.

Re: Kamra attack: “Taliban TV (at your service)”

LOL. :smiley:

See this is the kind of response I expected. Anytime I criticize Pakistan, or don’t buy the absurd conspiracy theories concocted against America, I get accused of being ignorant or an American worshiper. I guess I will take it as a compliment. :smiley:

The world doesn’t work that way Sir.

I can criticize Pakistan and keep Pakistan’s interests at heart.

I will not buy the utterly absurd conspiracy theories against America and yet condemn America when it does wrong such as Invading Iraq or giving a blank cheque to Israel.

As for evidence to back up your claims that America is supporting TTP. I googled American supporting TTP, and what I got were links to Gupshup Forums where members had posted such topics. :hehe:

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

Criticize America on factual basis, not conspiracy mumbo jumbo.

Criticize America on not following the Kyoto Protocols for Green House Gas Emissions.
Criticize America for not joining the International Criminal Court in Hague.
Criticize America for invading Iraq.
Criticize America for giving a blank check to Israel.
etc.....

I am not going to Criticize America for every manufactured conspiracy theory by Pakistanis to deflect blame from themselves.

You have failed to prove that conspiracy with facts and evidence and thus I will not believe you.

You can keep believing it, that's your prerogative, but don't expect me to.

Re: Kamra attack: "Taliban TV (at your service)"

If it cannot be searched on google, it never really happened. Moulana Merck

I agree with Ehsan bhai, international media is in controlled by a select group of people.

Rememeber Raymond Davis, no international paper published that he was a CIA contractor untill they were allowed by US to do so. If US had not allowed the disclosure, Merck would have been arguing here that he is a diplomat.