Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
Why cant you believe that America is supporting the TTP.
EB, why would it support TTP? What do they have to gain? You have to be able to establish motives of their support for TTP. I see none. All I have seen is conspiracy theories in Pakistani media. If Pakistan with nukes falls apart or fall in hands of terrorists that is worst case scenario for the US. Trust me the US does not want to see Pakistan turning into Iran or Somalia.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
There is no good or bad taiban. May be good or bad for USA or Pakistan not for us the awam.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
Why cant you believe that America is supporting the TTP. it is your prerogative but doesn't mean it is right. It was the Americans who recently divided taliban into good Taliban and bad Taliban. It was the American who recently removed the name of the head of taliban Mullah Omar from the most wanted list. Why? Has Mullah Omar turned angel all of a sudden? The taliban attacking them accoording to them is the Haqqani group and they blame Pakistan for it. However maybe TTP is part of the good taliban they always talk about.
How is America supporting the TTP. What proof is there? If there is tangible proof, then I will believe you. But right there is ZERO proof.
Have any captured fighters revealed that they are being armed and funded by America?
Has Pakistani ISI intercepted any communication between Americans and TTP?
And what happened to the alleged proof found on Raymond Davis about him supporting the TTP? Zaid Hamid was all over that.
Everyday TTP are blowing supply convoys of NATO. US drone strikes are taking out the TTP and other Taliban out in North Waziristan on a daily basis. TTP killed 7 American CIA agents looking for Bin Laden. CIA drones took out TTP leader Meshud.
As for dividing the Taliban. Many ranks of the Taliban are formed by poor Afghans who are disenfranchised by the current government, they are trying to goad them back. As for Mullah Omar's name being removed from Terrorist list. He was never on there to begin with. That was more nonsense from Iran's PressTV which all conspiracy lovers picked up as water tight proof of America backing the TTP.
The Haqqani Network is blamed for major coordinated attacks such as the Indian Embassy Bombing and other major attacks.
This entire America supporting TTP is an absurd conspiracy theory with not a single iota of proof of its validity.
Its a conspiracy theory designed to show that Pakistan's Jihad Policy is not an utter failure and Pakistan has not lost control of these militant groups. And the Taliban attacking Pakistan are the American controlled Taliban and not the True Taliban which is fighting America.
But in reality this is what happened:
Pakistan created the Taliban in 1992 to guard Trade Convoys between Pakistan and Central Asia as a civil war was raging in Afghanistan. Then Pakistan decided armed and trained the Taliban and they took over the majority Pashtun side of the civil war in 1993. Then they attacked the non-pashtuns side led by Ahmed Shah Masood and with Pakistan's backing threw them back and by 1996 they had taken Kabul.
This brought stability to Pakistan's western border but what happened is foreign extremists started to come to Afghanistan as refuge. First Osama bin laden and then Zawahiri after he did the Luxor tourist massacre in 1997. They started planning attacks against America due to Amerians having bases in Saudi Arabia which eventually led to 9/11. When US bombed Afghanistan, they fled to Pakistan's Tribal Areas. When America forced Pakistan to root out those terrorists hold up there, in May 2004, they declared Pakistani government to be infidel and inleague with the enemy and declared war on Pakistan. In 2007, they came under the umbrella group being called the Pakistani Taliban whose goal is same as the Afghan Taliban which is to replace the current government with an Sunni Extremist Government.
Blaming American and believing in fictitious conspiracy theories will not make the problem go away.
Good Day. :D
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
How is America supporting the TTP. What proof is there? If there is tangible proof, then I will believe you. But right there is ZERO proof.
Have any captured fighters revealed that they are being armed and funded by America? Has Pakistani ISI intercepted any communication between Americans and TTP? And what happened to the alleged proof found on Raymond Davis about him supporting the TTP? Zaid Hamid was all over that.
Everyday TTP are blowing supply convoys of NATO. US drone strikes are taking out the TTP and other Taliban out in North Waziristan on a daily basis. TTP killed 7 American CIA agents looking for Bin Laden. CIA drones took out TTP leader Meshud.
As for dividing the Taliban. Many ranks of the Taliban are formed by poor Afghans who are disenfranchised by the current government, they are trying to goad them back. As for Mullah Omar's name being removed from Terrorist list. He was never on there to begin with. That was more nonsense from Iran's PressTV which all conspiracy lovers picked up as water tight proof of America backing the TTP.
The Haqqani Network is blamed for major coordinated attacks such as the Indian Embassy Bombing and other major attacks.
This entire America supporting TTP is an absurd conspiracy theory with not a single iota of proof of its validity.
Its a conspiracy theory designed to show that Pakistan's Jihad Policy is not an utter failure and Pakistan has not lost control of these militant groups. And the Taliban attacking Pakistan are the American controlled Taliban and not the True Taliban which is fighting America.
But in reality this is what happened: Pakistan created the Taliban in 1992 to guard Trade Convoys between Pakistan and Central Asia as a civil war was raging in Afghanistan. Then Pakistan decided armed and trained the Taliban and they took over the majority Pashtun side of the civil war in 1993. Then they attacked the non-pashtuns side led by Ahmed Shah Masood and with Pakistan's backing threw them back and by 1996 they had taken Kabul.
This brought stability to Pakistan's western border but what happened is foreign extremists started to come to Afghanistan as refuge. First Osama bin laden and then Zawahiri after he did the Luxor tourist massacre in 1997. They started planning attacks against America due to Amerians having bases in Saudi Arabia which eventually led to 9/11. When US bombed Afghanistan, they fled to Pakistan's Tribal Areas. When America forced Pakistan to root out those terrorists hold up there, in May 2004, they declared Pakistani government to be infidel and inleague with the enemy and declared war on Pakistan. In 2007, they came under the umbrella group being called the Pakistani Taliban whose goal is same as the Afghan Taliban which is to replace the current government with an Sunni Extremist Government.
Blaming American and believing in fictitious conspiracy theories will not make the problem go away.
Good Day. :D
You only read what you want to, totally ignoring the good and bad taliban and Mullah Omar saga. Is that fiction as well? Considering america angel will not hide the realities on the ground. TTP is based in Afghanistan and who is in control of afghanistan, America. To say that America is not interested in destablising Paksitan is absurd as well.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
Conspiracy theories! Hmmm, what are conspiracy theories by the way? What was the war on Iraq all about? Was it also a conspiracy theory?
911 happened, within 24 hours US declared that the culprit was alqaeda. Within a month Afghanistan was attacked. No planning done before hand, with the result the terrorists just crossed the borders into Pakistan as the Afpak border was not guarded. An interesting thing is that Pakistan has arrested most of the high profile leaders who were allegedly part of 911 planning, but their prosecution has not even properly started yet, punishing them is a far off thing.
Pakistan was pushed to go for operations in Fata, and we also obliged without planning as well. War was unleashed against whole tribes in the presence of FCR, lo and behold TTP was formed in 2007. Pakistan started operations in SWA and Mohmand and US removed their troops from the border providing them sanctuaries in Eastern Afghanistan.
As far as this mythical haqqani network is concerned, it is responsible for 10 percent of the violence in Afghanistan, it's strange that the Americans want to negotiate with those who are responsible for the bulk of violence and not them. The Americans want Pakistan to do their bidding and carry out drone strikes at the same time which has pushed majority of the public into the Anti American camp.
The US policy during this war is totally confused, on the one side they want Pakistan to help them ending this war and on the other sides carrying out drone strikes there (reducing the capacity of the government to convince the people), they want a negotiated end to the war and declaring Haqqani network as a terrorist organization, they want Pakistan to act against the terrorist sanctuaries in the country and they themselves are providing sanctuaries to TTP in Eastern Afghanistan. All these actions are sending confusing signals to the stake holders in this war.
Anyways, due to US policies in the region we have got TTP now and we will have to deal with it somehow, and how that can be done with unsecure border with Afghanistan is the real question.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
Anyways, due to US policies in the region we have got TTP now and we will have to deal with it somehow, and how that can be done with unsecure border with Afghanistan is the real question.
Sorry, not due to the US policy, but due to Pakistan jihadi policies. TPP did not fall from sky... they are re-branded old jihadis that Pakistan has been supporting for last 30+ years. Is US blameless for lot of the mess? No. But Pakistan needs to accept & deal with the jihadi monster it created & destroy it. The US has luxury of packing up & leaving. What are Pakistan's options?
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
There might be too many reasons to dont like Mushraff but he was the man who know how to deal with them we realy need someone with iron fist to to lock the dogs again in the cage.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
There might be too many reasons to dont like Mushraff but he was the man who know how to deal with them we realy need someone with iron fist to to lock the dogs again in the cage.
how did he lock them? He started a half hearted operation which deteriorated the situation instead of solving it.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
Sorry, not due to the US policy, but due to Pakistan jihadi policies. TPP did not fall from sky... they are re-branded old jihadis that Pakistan has been supporting for last 30+ years. Is US blameless for lot of the mess? No. But Pakistan needs to accept & deal with the jihadi monster it created & destroy it. The US has luxury of packing up & leaving. What are Pakistan's options?
Yes 30 years back Pakistan supported them, then again on US bidding. We shouldnt have done the bidding then. Besides if you see around you extremists are flourishing in the region where there is a vacuum. Fata should have been brought into the mainstream long ago, but the power vaccum has only increased during the last decade which has also acted as a catalyst.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
EB, why would it support TTP? What do they have to gain? You have to be able to establish motives of their support for TTP. I see none. All I have seen is conspiracy theories in Pakistani media. If Pakistan with nukes falls apart or fall in hands of terrorists that is worst case scenario for the US. Trust me the US does not want to see Pakistan turning into Iran or Somalia.
Why would it not. It is part of its strategy to destabilise Pakistan. It is amazing that if America asys Pakistan is supporting Haqqani network, we are so brain washed that we immediately accept it, yet we will never accept that US is supporting TTP. Tell me why did US forces not seal the border last time around when Pak army launched an offensive in Waziristan. All the TTP escaped into Afghanistan and US forces let them do so. If this is not support what is.
Yes we have to accept that a lot of this mess is our created but lets not bury our head in sand and think that other forces (primrily US) are not taking advantage of it.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
Yes 30 years back Pakistan supported them, then again on US bidding. We shouldnt have done the bidding then. Besides if you see around you extremists are flourishing in the region where there is a vacuum. Fata should have been brought into the mainstream long ago, but the power vaccum has only increased during the last decade which has also acted as a catalyst.
You can't be serious. Many of the jihaidis are actually ex-Pakistani soldiers & attacks are often linked to those inside the bases like what happened here. Is the US responsible for that, too?
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
You can't be serious. Many of the jihaids are actually ex-Pakistani soldiers & attacks are often linked those inside the bases like what happened here. Is the US responsible for that, too?
To quote the Americans what we regard as bad Taliban they regard as good Taliban and vice versa.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
You can't be serious. Many of the jihaids are actually ex-Pakistani soldiers & attacks are often linked those inside the bases like what happened here. Is the US responsible for that, too?
Similarly how is Pakistan responsible for the terrorist activities in eastern Afghanistan (which has been literally handed over to terrorists) and other areas of Afghanistan. The Americans have access to the latest gadgets including spy drones, how come they can trace terrorists within Pakistan and they can't detect them once they enter Afghanistan?
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
Why would it not. It is part of its strategy to destabilise Pakistan.
If all the US wanted to was to destabilize Pakistan they really don't need help from TPP. They have many other means of destabilizing the country at their disposal including economic sanctions. So, I doubt it if they want to cozy up to another jihadi group where they could face blow back in future. Besdie, what do they have to gain for destabilizing Pakistan?
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
Similarly how is Pakistan responsible for the terrorist activities in eastern Afghanistan (which has been literally handed over to terrorists) and other areas of Afghanistan. The Americans have access to the latest gadgets including spy drones, how come they can trace terrorists within Pakistan and they can't detect them once they enter Afghanistan?
Oh bhai, we are not talking Afghanistan & what is happening there. We are talking about Pakistan & jihadi monster that is about swallow the country.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
^ we have a monster, agreed how can we control it now considering that we are not an island. We have a long unstable border with afghanistan. Any operations just sends these people across the border or in other parts of the country. Are operations the only way to end this menace, or can we use some other things like governance, economy, resolving the IDP issue etc with the army stationed there until normalcy returns in those areas? I don't think operations alone mean anything, as the power vaccum is still there.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
^ we have a monster, agreed how can we control it now considering that we are not an island. We have a long unstable border with afghanistan. Any operations just sends these people across the border or in other parts of the country. Are operations the only way to end this menace, or can we use some other things like governance, economy, resolving the IDP issue etc with the army stationed there until normalcy returns in those areas? I don't think operations alone mean anything, as the power vaccum is still there.
Syed this thing need to finish first when we tighten the screws of who protecting them in our cities in our town villages the taliban is not just a proper type typical peoples and this think of talibani is promoting by the groups like Difae Pakistan as per operation is important in fata area there is much need a operation clean up the groups who promoting and financing them. and thats was what Mushraff was good in it.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
^ but he didnt do anything there (there were half hearted operations in SWA, Mohmand and then Lal Masjid Fiasco) which only deteriorated the situation. The operations in Swat, SWA, Kurrum, Mohmand, Dir, Orakzai and Khyber etc have been carried out during the past four years. We can discuss the effectiveness of these operations though, as the borders with Afghanistan are porous and some of them move into other bigger cities in the garb of IDP's and create problems there (Karachi). Operations are not a long term solution.
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
You only read what you want to, totally ignoring the good and bad taliban and Mullah Omar saga. Is that fiction as well? Considering america angel will not hide the realities on the ground. TTP is based in Afghanistan and who is in control of afghanistan, America. To say that America is not interested in destablising Paksitan is absurd as well.
Ah finally we are getting somewhere. :)
So the proof that America is supporting the TTP is not that captured fighters have confessed to be armed and trained by USA, or Pakistani Intelligence decrypting communications between Americans and TTP, or any evidence found on dead TTP which shows an American hand, or any captured American agents in Pakistan having evidence on them in which they are supporting TTP like Raymond Davis or any other physical evidence which can hold up in a court of law.
But its simply that some TTP have moved to Afghanistan and USA controls Afghanistan and that shows complicity and ignoring everything else that TTP or America has done to each other such as drone strikes, NATO supply convoy attacks, taking out Meshud or TTP revenge for killing Meshud in which 7 CIA officers were killed.
Ok got it. :D
Re: Kamra Airbase attacked
Conspiracy theories! Hmmm, what are conspiracy theories by the way? What was the war on Iraq all about? Was it also a conspiracy theory?
911 happened, within 24 hours US declared that the culprit was alqaeda. Within a month Afghanistan was attacked. No planning done before hand, with the result the terrorists just crossed the borders into Pakistan as the Afpak border was not guarded. An interesting thing is that Pakistan has arrested most of the high profile leaders who were allegedly part of 911 planning, but their prosecution has not even properly started yet, punishing them is a far off thing.
Pakistan was pushed to go for operations in Fata, and we also obliged without planning as well. War was unleashed against whole tribes in the presence of FCR, lo and behold TTP was formed in 2007. Pakistan started operations in SWA and Mohmand and US removed their troops from the border providing them sanctuaries in Eastern Afghanistan.
As far as this mythical haqqani network is concerned, it is responsible for 10 percent of the violence in Afghanistan, it's strange that the Americans want to negotiate with those who are responsible for the bulk of violence and not them. The Americans want Pakistan to do their bidding and carry out drone strikes at the same time which has pushed majority of the public into the Anti American camp.
The US policy during this war is totally confused, on the one side they want Pakistan to help them ending this war and on the other sides carrying out drone strikes there (reducing the capacity of the government to convince the people), they want a negotiated end to the war and declaring Haqqani network as a terrorist organization, they want Pakistan to act against the terrorist sanctuaries in the country and they themselves are providing sanctuaries to TTP in Eastern Afghanistan. All these actions are sending confusing signals to the stake holders in this war.
Anyways, due to US policies in the region we have got TTP now and we will have to deal with it somehow, and how that can be done with unsecure border with Afghanistan is the real question.
As soon as I saw what happened on 9/11, I knew with almost 100% certainty that Osama Bin Laden was behind it.
As for Iraq War, that was a pet project for the Neo-cons to reshape the entire middle east in Jeffersonian Style democracy. I was totally against that stupid war.
As for TTP, they are based in North Waziristan, when US withdrew troops from some areas of Eastern Afghanistan which are uninhabited, as they were needed in Southern Afghanistan to carry out the Surge in Summer 2010, its then that some TTP moved to Afghanistan.
So before some of them moved there, the conspiracy theory was that US Drones are only targeting Afghan Taliban Terrorists in North Waziristan and not Pakistani Taliban in North Waziristan. Then when US drones took out Meshud and other high ranking members of the Pakistani Taliban, the conspiracy theory was US is being fooled by ISI into killing these guys. Then when US surge happened, some of Afghan and Pakistani Taliban moved to that area, then the conspiracy theory was that USA is now openly supporting the TTP starting in 2011. :D
Is it any wonder why everyone laughs at Pakistanis when they make such absurd claim.