Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
Damras’s sentiments are rather strong…but so were yours, Sid. You assumed that people who are questioning the parents’ decisions are brutal, insensitive, heartless. And you’re wrong in that. Neither Navs nor I had suggested that the parents be locked up, or penalized in any way. They are suffering enough already. But you know what, Sid? Zainab’s own parents will be asking themselves the question…“What could we as parents have done differently?”…and “What will we do differently in the future?” The same questions, Sid, that you are so angry at US for asking…the parents will ask themselves the same questions.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
Whats the basis of this claim that it happens more often in Punjab?
What are the stats and how were they collected?
And what are the numbers per capita ?
I do agree though that without improving socioeconomic status of people, crimes are much too difficult to control.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
Rarely do I agree with Bobby…but he has a point.
In a busy street…it’s not hard for a stranger to grab the hand of a child…that is ALONE. The child might be too stunned or too scared to protest. And even if the child cries…bystanders could easily assume that the child is “whining” about something as children tend to do. And if the rapist is a family member…then bystanders might think…“Oh, it’s no big deal. It’s just that little girl’s older cousin.” Even teenaged and older girls are not 100% safe…but they at least might protest and people will take notice. But with a child…people might not think much of it. Think about it. When we go to the supermarket and see a grown up with a screaming/crying child…we tend to think “Oh it’s a kid having an typical kid- outburst.” The father of Zainab blames the police. And for sure the police in Pak are known to be corrupt. But parents should also question the “soundness” of letting a little girl walk about the streets alone on a regular basis and much less when parents are in another country.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
You may have a point but there are too many assumptions here. We do not know the situation parents and family was in.
I am positive that 99% of children at some time are left to care of someone other than father and mother, most often grand parents. I am also positive that even parents cannot keep an eye of every kid all the time. Granted that we living abroad when go to Pakistan, do a lot better, for we are on vacation. No job obligation during that time and routine has not lot our guard down.
On top of that I can totally see how parents can be lulled into a false sense of security because “Hum tu Umrah karne jaa rahey haiN, Allah khud hifazat karey ga” The only time I have lost my cool with my wife, infront of kids was on a similar argument.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
Well, it’s not that I’m fond of finding faults with Punjab. If per capita numbers say KP or Sindh has more such incidents I’ll state the facts anyway. I said Punjab because Kasur is in Punjab and you read papers or watch TV you see acid attacks on women, gang rapes, child molestation frequently in Punjab than anywhere else. It doesn’t mean I’m biased or have some problem with Punjab. I’m only interested in facts and figures.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
Icono, how do you get lulled when your city has been in the news so often for such a heinous crime…and the parents of those victims (prior to Zainab) might have been 5 waqt k namazi..if not umrah bound pilgrims.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
Let me ask you this. You meet the parents today. Right now. What’ll be the first thing you’ll tell them? Something like, “its your fault. You need spanking” ?
I’m sure you wont.
So stop blaming parents. They are the victims. They are not the culprits. If you blame these parents then please tell me, are you going to blame 700 parents whose daughters got killed/missing/raped since 2005?? And these are the reported stats only. God knows how many go unreported.
What you, Damras and Nav are saying here is the same version that when a girl is raped, there is a portion of society who claim, why was she even outside? or why was she even dressing “inappropriate”. Example: Qandeel baloch.
So in the end its all victim’s fault for some people
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
I wonder as well, but, I have heard this a lot! Even from apparently sensible people. Hearing stories after stories of karamaat day in and day out can lead to such intoxicating thoughts.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
Bcoz Punjab has 60% of population and better access to media. Crimes reported from Karachi are out of proportion to those reported on media from interior Sindh, bcoz of media presence again.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
It’s being realistic. When you know there’s fire, you wont go into it. When you know your life is at risk, you will be careful. When you know there are 700 rape victims in the city in a couple of years, you won’t go to perform umrah leaving your child behind at the mercy of this brutal world.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
With this (wrong) analogy, nobody should live in Qasur.
and unless you think that it only happens in Qasur, nobody should actually have a kid at all. Since there are sexual predators everywhere.
And as you said 700 kids were raped in Qasur potentially without having their parents gone for umrah, wuts the gurantee this wouldnt have happened if Zainab’s parents were home?
either way, put your blame on whoever you want and suggest spanking, lashing, murdering, hanging etc to parents as you like.
I wont cuz it makes me sick to the stomach that the victims are judged so brutally.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
I’m not judging the victims, they are either dead or done wrong too. I’m blaming those who were required to protect these children from brutal criminals.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
The ones blaming the parents obviously do not have kids of their own. It is so easy to sit behind a computer and preach but reality is you will not be attached to the hip of your child 24/7. Kids can get assaulted at their own home during a get together where someone they trust turns out to be a sick minded individual or heck in a bazaar, the child could be with their parents but their attention is diverted for a second and before you know it, some pervert has pinched the kid’s behind. I have heard of all these incidences so please have several seats.
Let’s forget about money and place of privilege for a second, I am curious, all of the ones blaming the parents, did your parents never leave you with a relative or a sitter as a child, never let you go to a friend’s house? My parents were super protective of me but even they left me with relatives when they had to go for umrah.
As far as the story goes, it is so heartbreaking. I have no words.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
To my understanding any kid less than 12 cannot go for Hujj.
Other thing total number of cases in Punjab were 760, and 68 in Qasur. And population wise highest number reported in Balochistan, other provinces pretty much equal based upon population.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
I do not want to engage in a useless argument but let me state this fact loud and clear. I have been traveling by matro for last 3, 4 years and i have not seen any teasing or harrassment yet. I am not saying rape or harrassment does not happen at all as many people do face it in day to day life, but the situation is not as worse as portrayed by one of our guppy.. We are not among the countries with lowest rape rate but still we are far behind many many counties when it comes to these crimes. India and America are the counties with the highest rates of rape and harrasment followed by swedan and Denmark. I do not want to compare pakistan with any other country as rape is rape and it should be condemned but let me tell you one thing, if you think you can bring down such crimes to zero level with the current system that we have in the world… whistle baby, it’s never gonna happen. You need a Saudi or ISIS or Mullah umar like system in terms of punishment to shoot down these crimes to zero.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
So what about the report where the survey was done and 95 percent of lorry drivers confessed to rape and molestation of children, The guys who openly confessed to molesting several children on tape and for the whole word to watch were never even questioned by police.. Also another survey that 17 percent of children going to Madrassas claimed abuse, another report in Karachi 90 percent of street children in Karachi get raped the first night out of home mostly by the police. I would suspect majority does not report the rapes because of Khaandan ki Izzat. At NED uni hostels, the balochs and Pathan quota system students sons of Waderas and chiefs would abduct women on a regular basis from Gulshan and you could hear them screaming. My friend Badar was a very good looking kid and we always used to joke about how the pathans would come around the public bus which we took to school and start grinding his behind, one of his famous lines was Khan sahib aab tau bus rook gai hai aab kyon hill rahey hoa. Many sexual assaults reported here are not the same as in Pak, Bridgeetes SIL had alleged consensual sex with hubby and charged him with assault to get an upper hand in divorce proceedings, this egyptian guy was invited to the girl friends house, she took him into the bedroom and he told her he wants to break up and she charged him with rape.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
Now let me ask you this. Do you really think that people who are questioning the soundness of the parents’ decisions…are totally incapable of manners or social propriety? Let me give you an example. Let’s say that you go for “ofsos” to the family of someone who has committed suicide. You know fully well that suicide is a sin. But you have enough aqal to not say those words to the grieving family, right?
I might analyze this scenario from various angles on an online forum…and I might discuss it with my own family. But I am not so callous that I would tell Zainab’s parents to their faces that “It’s your fault”…much less that “You should be spanked” as they are suffering enough as it is. That’s not a reasonable assumption on your part.
Sid, let’s say there is a dangerous animal close by…that has the potential to attack us. It might attack…it might not. But we will try to avoid it…or we will at least try not to draw the animal’s attention to us. Such precaution is aqalmandi. But sadly…some human beings are worse than animals. And sadly…we don’t always use our sense when it comes to the potential predators among humans.
Every situation is different. A child does not have the same ability to reason that an adult has. But let’s look at the complex example of a woman being raped. Sadly…in today’s world…“female empowerment” is associated with the shedding of a woman’s clothes…and not with her intellect and use of her brain.
We should have sympathy for a victim …because regardless of that victim’s poor judgment…they did not deserve to be assaulted. But that still does not exempt the victim from trying their best to safeguard themselves. When we take humdardi …to such a point…that we exempt a person from a responsibility of using proper judgment…that’s like an insult as well that we find that person so incapable…and such logic is damaging as well. And I know that I’m going to receive lashback for this view because people have the erroneous interpretation that it sounds devoid of sympathy. Not so. We all have a responsibility to toward our own well-being/safety.
Re: Justice for Zainab 7 year old , raped & killed in Qasoor
In any significant event analysis, you have to determine cause and effect, and blame has to be assigned to people, events, and errors that lead to the adverse event. of course there are elements which are more responsible for this atrocity, like the rapists and kidnappers themselves, the incompetency of Police for several years, the apathy and carelessness of the society as a whole etc, BUT there is no denial parents have to share their responsibility despite their loss and grief. Only then lessons can be learned and society especially parents be educated to be even more so vigilant, proactively protective and mindful of their children’s safety and surroundings.
