Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
PD, people here are not mind readers, so please have some mercy on us.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan
While you are yelling at the system, let me remind you it's the same system that called the killer back from Dubai, charged him, got him arrested, put him in jail, fired the officials who helped him escape, called back all the witnesses, despite some of the witnesses that changed their statements, the court still went ahead and followed the laws and sentenced him death penalty. So if anyone who screwed up the system and trolled the entire nation is Shahzaib's family.
Frankly speaking, at this point no one even cares about the family that will move to peaceful Australia in few days time, marne wala marr gya, but the people are now rightly concerned about the safety and welfare of the innocent locals who put their lives and livelihood on serious risk to protest for the victim. Let this moment be the witness that if that 20 year old murderer kills, assaults, rapes or harass any member of the society, every bit of blame and gunnah would lie on Shahzaib's family.
Did Pakistani government assure Shahzaib's family for security for entire life of the family? They might have "security" per se, but what about security from harassment? You can not infinitely fight insecurity, harassment, you feel exhausted at some point. The blame goes on the society/system that we are so weak in our overall security that no one feels safe unless explicitly obtaining security but for how long can one afford exclusive security?
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
i wish N pray that CJ takes notice of the impropriety in the execution of this case and also reject the 'forgiveness' bit citing influence peddling.
insidaad-e-dahshatgardi ke jurm meN dii gaii sazaa e maut mo'aaf nahiiN kii jaa saktii...
...beTaa ShahruKh, get ready to die!
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan
Did Pakistani government assure Shahzaib's family for security for entire life of the family? They might have "security" per se, but what about security from harassment? You can not infinitely fight insecurity, harassment, you feel exhausted at some point. The blame goes on the society/system that we are so weak in our overall security that no one feels safe unless explicitly obtaining security but for how long can one afford exclusive security?
What kind of security? Define security in this case.
You really think even in a country like USA or Britain, they would've given Shahzaib's family presidential guards for life? Even the witness protection thing can only go far that too for a limited period of time.
Don't paint Shahzaib's family as bunch of helpless nobody's, for a wealthy and politically connected family, they could afford to leave the country, re-locate or go under the radar on their own without trolling the "society" that got the case this far or abusing the "system" that gave sentenced death penalty to the murderer. I'm honestly getting sick and tired of the superficial 'society/system' bashing just to cover up some individuals' decision.
What is the evidence that the family was harassed? Yeah Shahzaib's father is a police officer, I'm sure he know the rules.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan
What kind of security? Define security in this case.
You really think even in a country like USA or Britain, they would've given Shahzaib's family presidential guards for life? Even the witness protection thing can only go far that too for a limited period of time. ......
Here's the thing. This case highlights the basic problem with the system. The criminals KNOW they can get away with anything, even murder. They are not afraid to indulge in crime for that reason. The issue is not providing security to the family but the fact that they might get hurt AND not be able to avail any remedy for it.
Only if people know that if caught, they would have to face a fair judicial system, they would refrain from criminal activities. Many overseas Pakistanis say they would return to Pakistan even if one thing is changed. Crime happens everywhere. The issue with Pakistan is that if something bad happens to me, there is very limited chance that I would be able to get justice from our system.
It is in the interest of those in power (remember 'government' and 'power' means different things in Pakistan) that things remain the way they are. Realistically, things wont change overnight anyways even if 99% of population would approve. As population increases and food becomes scarce, the landed elite would yield even more power than they do now.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan
Here's the thing. This case highlights the basic problem with the system. The criminals KNOW they can get away with anything, even murder. They are not afraid to indulge in crime for that reason. The issue is not providing security to the family but the fact that they might get hurt AND not be able to avail any remedy for it.
Only if people know that if caught, they would have to face a fair judicial system, they would refrain from criminal activities. Many overseas Pakistanis say they would return to Pakistan even if one thing is changed. Crime happens everywhere. The issue with Pakistan is that if something bad happens to me, there is very limited chance that I would be able to get justice from our system.
It is in the interest of those in power (remember 'government' and 'power' means different things in Pakistan) that things remain the way they are. Realistically, things wont change overnight anyways even if 99% of population would approve. As population increases and food becomes scarce, the landed elite would yield even more power than they do now.
Except this criminal didn't get away with it, he was given death penalty! Considering seven months ago, no one even dared thought that he would ever get arrested. He faced the judicial system, didn't he? The system provided justice to the victim, according to khoon ka badla khoon *qanoon, *right? Yes there are some technical hitches to be discussed and which could've been perfected had the victim's family pushed a little hard, just like they did during the initial stages of the case. So I really don't understand the habitual system/society bashing, it's losing credibility and relevance. It's contradictory to believe the system won't change overnight yet not appreciate the changes that were rapidly taking place.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan
Correction: He did, eventually.
The case got high profile only because the victim’s family was somewhat influential as well. God forbid, if something goes wrong with my family, we do not have anyone to turn to!
There is a civil case that my brother is dealing with in courts which was started when someone occupied a small piece of land owned by my great grandfather. Forty five years, and it still goes on. I’ll keep on system bashing, like it or not 
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan
The fact he initially got away is totally irrelevant. The fact is when the ‘system’ got activated, even Zardari couldn’t pardon the murderer nor his sister could get the Talpur goons released. You can bash the overall system as much as you like but there’s no denying that system was certainly working in the favour of this particular case. That’s all we need at the end of the day - the system to start working, make a start somewhere with someone.
I’d say you said exactly what I was trying to say, on what basis people are supporting this completely made up and thoroughly disgusting diyat deal? If this guy can get away with murdering a high profile rich kid who had politicians and elites fighting for this case, what hope do his future victims have? Who will stand up if that bstard decides to rape a poor man’s daughter in broad day light or if he throws acid on a woman’s face or shoots a bystander just for sadist pleasure?
Shahzaib’s case was and still is an epic golden opportunity to set a much needed precedent for justice and equality. I just hope that the civil society doesn’t lose hope and keep the momentum going. The world famous British and American judicial system have been through worse phases.
PS: It’s unfair to compare Criminal law with Civil.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
It is very easy to sit on sidelines comment on people while sipping a cup of tea while its a different animal altogether when you lose a family member, deal with constant threats. If they were really looking for money I am sure that was on the cards right from the beginning of the case in initial trial rather than waiting for so long.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan
fine mohthrama…you do have a point that the system was working but you do forget quiet conveniently that:
1)first, the system started to work after chief justice took the notice..before that our system let shahrukh ran to dubai…i mean how weird is that? plus initially the police was refusing to register the FIR…so a lot happened on judicial front because our chief justice took the notice
- second, this case became a hot issue amid social media/facebook and what not…a lot was at stake and our corrupt system had to disguise itself to avoid severe public back-lashing
3)third… the corrupt system eventually kicked back…sharia intervention into western juridical system will always create confusion and in some cases will create exploitable cracks because of wrong interpretation of sharia laws..remember sharia laws are not up for parliament debate f and hence are subjected to scholars’ interpretation
4)forth…forget the sharia system for a second…even in normal circumstances, this case was ready to be re-appealed in next 7 days and i am sure it would have gone to supreme court as well and would have taken a long time
- and last but not least…you are not ready to believe the extent of threatening environment in which shazeb family was living for last 10 months..so what can i say…it will break anyone…you asked for proof…here is one..shahzeb sister revealing amount of stress and threats they received
Nomination of Pak senior adviser to IMF delayed
cheers
PD
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
I*t is very easy to sit on sidelines comment on people while sipping a cup of tea while its a different animal altogether when you lose a family member,* deal with constant threats. If they were really looking for money I am sure that was on the cards right from the beginning of the case in initial trial rather than waiting for so long.
This comment better not be directed at me coz frankly speaking you really don't want me to share the details of the case I'm dealing with right now.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan
fine madam jee...you do have a point that the system was working but you do forget quiet conveniently that:
1) the system started to work after cheif justice took the notice..before that our system let shahrukh run to dubai...i mean how weird is that? plus initially the police was refusing to register the FIR...so a lot happened on judicial front because chief justice took the notice
2) second, this case became a hot issue amid social media/facebook and what not.....a lot was at stake and our corrupt system had to disguise itself to avoid severe public back-lashig
3)but eventually the corrupt system kicked back...sharia intervention into western juridical system will always create confusion and in some cases loose holes because of wrong interpretation of sharia laws..remember sharia laws are not up for parliament debate for most part and hence are subjected to scholars' interpretation
4)forget sharia system.....even in normal circumstances, this case was ready to be re-appealed in next 7 days and i am sure it would have gone to supreme court as well and would have taken a long time
.cheers
For someone who cannot get enough of bashing Pakistan and praising the West, you should seriously study how the Civil Rights Movement achieved its goal, or why they even needed one in the first place or how Britain finally defeated feudalism. They might you teach some valuable lessons about changing the 'system'.
I wish I could also believe that one day the sky will rip open, angels will descend on our pretty Pakistan and clean up the country in matter of couple of hours and then go back up again.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
Maybe CJ’s ghairat has come alive seeing this:
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
Some people who consider themselves guardian of Islam have made joke of Islamic laws mentioned in Quran when that is not the case.
In any murder case, three types of crimes can occurred … and it is possible that all three could occur at the same time.
1: Crime against murdered person (and his family) … could be intentional or unintentional.
2: Crime against society … if murder was intentional.
3: Crime against Allah (Fitna) …Even though all intentional murder of innocent victim is crime against Allah, any act that creates fitna in society is specially mentioned in Quran and it is duty of Muslims to punish those who get involved in such crimes of Fitna (for instance … what Taliban and other so-called religious outfits are doing in the name of Islam). State has no right to forgive such crimes and has duty to punish culprits.
Since murder of Shahzeb is crime that falls in first two categories, we should understand that under Islamic rule:
Shahzeb family has right to forgive only for crime against Shahzeb … Qisas and diya applies only for this crime.
As for crime against society, State not only has right but has duty to punish the culprit, so that society stays safe from such murderers.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
In many ways, Shahzaib’s murder case is Pakistani equivalent of Delhi gang rape case. Both high profile, well campaigned and system shattering cases showing mirror to the public and authorities.
CJ’s in this case is pretty consistent. No matter how many people curse the local police walas and custom officers, realistically CJ was the only one who could stand upto the Jatois and he’s still the only one who could decide the ultimate outcome of this case. I hope he does justice to all the innocent souls who became victims of feudal brutality.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
^^^ You are right ... as long as the person is not Ganja brothers, or paymaster of some sort, CJ would try to take stand.
Re: Justice for Shahzaib Khan / Verdict announced (merged)
During the famine in Hazrat Umar's (ra) Khalifat, the hadd punishment defined in the Quran for theft was temporarily suspended out of necessity for thefts where somebody would steal to stay alive.
Pakistan should take an analogy to this and suspend diyat temporarily until a mechanism can be found to prevent the powerful abusing it to escape justice for crimes committed against the weak, such as in this case and the Raymond Davis case before it.