Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Justice Bhagwandas, one of the most respected justices in the supreme court, speaks on the current situation and the illegality of his and the other other justices house arrest… This is rare as the Justice never gives statements..

One has to wonder why if Musharaf chamchas and the dictator himself are so secure in their own support among the people, why the insist on keeping the justices in house arrest, not allowing them visitors or calls… This dictator knows full well that if the Justices and Chief Justice in particular were allowed their freedom, they would rouse so many supporters as to leave the Dictator humiliated and shrunken…

God bless Justice Bhagwandas and the other brave justices fighting the dictatorship…

Call to release Pakistan judges

Lawyers have led anti-government protests this year
One of Pakistan’s most senior judges has criticised the international response to the state of emergency.
Rana Bagwan Das was among Supreme Court members sacked when President Musharraf suspended the constitution last month.

The international community was not doing enough to restore democracy in Pakistan, Mr Bagwan Das told the BBC.

He said January general elections could not be free and fair unless he and his colleagues were re-instated and the rule of law restored.

President Musharraf says he will end emergency rule on 15 December.

He stood down as army chief and was sworn in for a new term as civilian president at the end of November.

‘No legal basis’

Mr Bagwan Das made his remarks in a rare interview from his home in Islamabad.

Bhutto and Sharif both say their parties will take part in elections

“The international community seems oblivious to the ground realities and the fundamental human rights of the citizens of Pakistan. Whatever has been said and done is quite insufficient and inadequate,” he told the BBC by mobile phone.

Mr Bagwan Das said he and his colleagues were living under virtual house arrest, with police preventing them from leaving their housing complex.

They were not allowed to receive visitors and their main phone lines had been disconnected, he said.

There was no legal basis for their detention, Mr Bagwan Das said, because no warrant of arrest or detention order had been issued against them.

The BBC’s Jill McGivering in Islamabad, who conducted the interview, says the plight of the former chief justice and these senior judges lies at the heart of the current political crisis.

Their growing opposition was cited by President Musharraf as a main reason for imposing the state of emergency. The other was rising militancy in the country.

Opposition figures Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto are both calling for the sacked judges to be re-instated.

But both now also say their parties will contest the elections anyway, under protest.

Western diplomats, too, seem resigned to the judges’ dismissal. They want stability in Pakistan and more progress in the battle against militants.

Pushing ahead with elections may seem more important than fighting for the return of the judges, our correspondent says.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

maybe international community was not too impressed with the type of democracy Pakistan experienced in the 90's and would rather not reinstate that mess. He seems to have forgotten what Nawaz did with Sajjad Ali shah.

or is bagwan das talking about the pre-emergency era, is he calling that a democracy?

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Instead of analyzing the situation and trying to identify right from wrong, we, in our petty differences, try to find justification in history and unfortunately most of the time we come up with “wrong” to justify another ‘wrong”. I wonder if one reprehensible act can be used as a pretext to another deplorable act. Has our discussion become so frantically polluted with ego of our self bias that we dare not to open our eyes and see what is a blazing reality, can we not fathom the fact that the nations that loosen their grip on the system of justice vanish like a non existent entity, even from the pages of history. Have we not learnt the lesson that might is not always right. The first “doctrine of necessity” paved way to for the separation of East Pakistan, now the executive branch has become accustomed to the presumed submissive role of judiciary. Executive branch of Govt. can not afford to even think about the judicial activism, they call it interference in the matters of Govt. It is true that in a bid to assert the freedom, and to celebrate the establishment’s defeat against unconstitutional overthrowing of CJ, judiciary made a few mistakes. We could have attributed this act of judiciary to a child who starts walking and falls here and there, once matured this freedom could have been a diamond in ring of “judicial freedom”. But it is clear that the goldsmith had different intentions, nothing taste better than the blood of judiciary in the mouth of executive branch.

It is not a question of individual, it is not even the question of democracy or dictatorship, it is a question of justice, and judicial system. We should realize that an illegitimate act of Nawaz Sherif against the then chief justice set a precedence, and the recent actions of his Excellency are just an expansion to that precedence, and I am sure some one behind the curtain is registering this act to use as pretext to sack all the judges in one go, another individual may get rid of the judicial system altogether. What’s the harm?

Response of International community is of two kinds and is very understandable, NGO’s and other community voices speak the language of fairness and justice, they have raised their voice against the actions of our ruling class as a deplorable act. The silence of official spokesmen on this matter is a political stance of the “west” and provides yet another ostensible proof of double standards, politics and vested interests make a yardstick that speaks the language of truth for them. Present power structure in Pakistan has been hailed as a great ally and agent of peace against the so called war on terror, can we really think that west would accept a judicial system that stands as barbed wire in the way of illegitimate actions against a great ally.

We are a nation of 150 million people, yet the division among us even on the core issues like justice, media and democracy has left us weaker than ever before, we start abusing each other, without realization of the fact that we castigate only when we are done with logic, we should remember that differences among brothers are not settled in battle filed.

Peace

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

**
Every thing takes time, its not like that you just got remember all the constitution & law. Wait n see …

God bless President Musharraf for firing corrupt judges :jhanda:**

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Its been sixty years my friend, even the eyes are dry now, hands go up in the air but don’t know what to ask for, and who spoke about remembering constitution, and does it mean if you remember the words of constitution, you become wise and noble . Every written constitution of the world has enough vague language and enough gray areas that can support the motives of any opportunist, its not in the words of constitution my friend, it is in the spirit. The eyes of the soul see the spirit of the constitution vialing behind the walls of barracks.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

You people need to get over the 90's... We are far better of with a dysfunctional democracy then a functional dictatorship..

India, despite its high level of corruption and often misuse of power, still managed to remain united, and relatively prosperous for 60 years.. Now they have a booming economy and confidence that resonates around the world... It should be clear that democracy workd in the long run... Dictatorships only function for a brief period of time before the implode, and whatever little success they had goes with them...

An independant judiciary, prior to the emergency, no matter how it functioned, was still preferable because it was democratic. The Judges themselves are irrelevant, its the independance of the institution of the judiciary that is important and somthing that short sighted people like Musharaf and his supporters like e33or are incapable of understanding...

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

please define this "you people' term you throw about? :) dysfunctional 'democracies' of BB and Nawaz were better? is that what you are saying?

and why should people get over the 90's, who was in power in 90's, who is back in political scene now, viola benazir and nawaz. So in this back to the future scenario, you simply can not afford to forget how they handled certain things.

This is not being used to justify anything wrong being done today, but a reality check of when ppl talk about 'return' to democracy.

are we simply refusing to admit the attacks on judiciary during civilian govts? I even gave an example of Nawaz and Sjjad Ali Shah. Point being 'return' to 'democracy' as we saw it is simply not
enough, we need to ask for establishment of true democracy not return to some sham democracy.

agree 100%. and we have infortunately seen military as well as civilian dictatorships. Just because certain individuals got into office by votes does not mean that they acted in a democratic manner.

independent and clean judiciary...that is indeed needed.

dude...so what is so different than what was dont to judiciary in a civilian rule era of Nawaz. if you get off your musharraf bashing and simply look at it from a logical perspective, you can oppose Musharraf yet not lose sight of the fact that ppl who are clamoring for power (musharraf, nawaz, BB) and those who benefitted from it (Ifti, bhagwan das, Javed Iqbal etc)..benefited from illegal actions like the assault on supreme court during Nawaz era.

ask for democracy, ...yell screaam, fight, shout, work, rally, eveything in your power, but please lets work towards a real democracy. Questioning statemenst such as 'return' to 'democracy' should be questioned because we can nto go back to what it was in the 90s, we need to move ahead.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Please refer to my previous post.

btw we are saying the same thing. I am not using the complete and utter incompetence of civilian govts as a way to ignore the follies of this regime. This is no justification but a reminder that when we talk about 'return' to 'democracy' we are delluind ourselves, and we need to be a little more responsible ... there should be no returning to anything we have had, we need to move beyond that and we need to do better.

return to what, the crap that we had?

Simply put, I dont like the present, but I dont want to return to the past, lets work for a better future.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Well said! Mushrraf today is where Ayoub Khan was in (1964/65 I think). He had his sham elections and 5 years after he was ousted. His 12 years of rule cost of half of the country, and his economic boom went with him. The history is repeating in front of our eyes.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Ayub had a big role in fall of Dhaka but there were many other reason behind that.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

People of Hazara still love Ayub Khan!

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

As people of Larkana still love Bhutto!

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

And people of .................... will continue to love Mushy!

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

And this time there is 0% chance of Pakistan's further division.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

There is already rising discontent in all three provinces outside of Punjab... Although muted, their those calling for an indepndant Sindh, there are Baloch nationalist, Pashtun nationalists... Right now they arent demanding independance, but how long are they going to remain marginalized?

The dictator is doing what the military has always done, centralize all authority and power, rig election to place their own goons in power and deny equal share in governance and economic gains, eventually the country is bound to splinter once again.

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Yes all of them are looking for so called independence but they cant do anything as I already pointed in this thread

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=270324

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Mere dost, don't get me wrong. Those people calling for rule of law are NOT calling for break up of the country. Our country was not created by these thuggish generals, nor was it meant to be ruled by them. It was created by a lawyer, who believed in rule of law and democracy. We have to face the reality that army is not part of solution to our country's problems, but its a part of problem. All the hated politicians that you mentioned are creation of army, including ZAB, NS and entire lota league, MQM, jihadis and rest of thugs. Why can't we understand this? India is a success story b/c their armed forces never ventured into politics. We need to learn from them.

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Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

You people who fail to realize the danger of having this corrupt dictator running the country.., Blind supporters of dictators.. If you want to count yourself among them then your more then welcome...

Yes you do need to get over the 90's. You people, yes YOU people, need to realize that regardless of what happened in the 90's Pakistan STILL needs democracy and it STILL need functional institutions...
There are a number of things you forget, no govt was allowed to complete it tenure, so you honestly can assume anything... Nawaz Sharif for example, atleast in his first term, might have done some good.
Also, dont fool yourself into thinking that the Army wasnt calling the shot behind the scenes...
Also, SIMPLE concept here... A DEMOCRACY, needs time to mature. If each govt is cut of automatically then thats not allowing democracy to mature. If the govt is corrupt, then you dont just throw out the govt, you bring it to trial... In a functional democracy, their is accountability, but that accountability can only be developed through strong institutions, SUCH AS AN INDEPENDANT JUDICIARY. In Pakistan, Democracy has never had a chance to mature because each time the military has stepped into destroy it. Thats why I cite India, because despite its dysfuntional sytem, they still managed to keep the system in place... (For all intents and purposes, their democracy has been their greatest strength.. They never had to call an emergency martial law to handle their many insurgencies.._)
Also, Musharaf has attacked the civil society, which could potentialy provide the country with a counter weight against the Army and the feudals. Thats another reason why there was so much hope this time, because the ground situation has changed from back in the 90's.

Again, A DYSFUNCTIONAL DEMOCRACY WORKS FAR BETTER THEN A FUNCTIONAL DICTATORSHIP..
A dictatorship can never work in Pakistan, people in Pakistan... Or any other country for that matter. Dictatorships end to cetralize power and deny other people a place in the governance of the country.
A democracy, no matter how flawed, is atleast somewhat representative. The PPP may be corrupt in many ways, but it is relatively representative as it has broad based support. Same with PML, although far less in Sindh.
Eventually, its not up to the Military to decide who should be or not be in power... In a DEMOCRATIC nation, the people decide in free and fair elections, who should rule them... If Naqaz Sharif or BB were correct, it will be the peoples right to choose whether they deserve to rule or not. If they do get in power, it will be the role of the other institutions of the govt, the Judiciary and the legislative to keep a check on the power of the executive.
And thats the tragedy, that we dont have these institutiont. We almost had a free Judiciary, but Musharaf has wiped that hope out.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

I never got you wrong dear!

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Exactly... Pakistanis have a very short memory. The greatest tragedies in the country, and the greatest folly's have taken place under these military rulers, and yet no one see;s the writing on the board.