Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Spot on!

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

As long as the poor people of Pakistan continue to put up with the tyranny of the elite ruling class, things will remain as such in Pakistan! But Pakistan will continue to exist on the map!

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

People dont stay silent forever.. Eventually the dam will burst and the resentment of the millions in the smaller provinces is going to pour out, unless people like Musharaf arent sent packing and the Army sent back to the baracks for good.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

I can assure you people in the biggest province are also equally fed up with this criminal tyrant and a mafia called army supporting him...and share the same views as our brothers from smaller provinces>>>

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

http://www.chowk.com/articles/12989

Pakistani Judges - Read This Lawyer’s Oath
by Aisha Sarwari

Eight Judges refused to take oath under the unlawful Provisional Constitutional Order (PCO) that Musharraf demanded and instead declared the emergency imposed by the head of a competitive authoritarian regime, unconstitutional.

Pakistan was created as a democracy and it can function
only as a democracy. Musharraf, however has seemingly created an official Orwellian state where everything is on it’s head: “War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery and Ignorance is Strength.” Take for instance his choice to quote American Founding father Abraham Lincoln on state television when announcing his emergency, he chose not to quote the iconic President whose immortal words — “government of the people, by the people, for the people” — are part of America’s anthem to freedom, but stated that Lincoln “usurped” powers to protect the United States.

Even more disturbing was his overt use of Pakistan’s founding father’s portrait as a lifeline to gain him some respect. Yet, respect can only be granted to Musharraf by the people of Pakistan if they trusted him, not because he symbolically aligned himself with one of the most trustworthy and credible man in the history of South Asia.

Incorruptible and with the highest level of integrity, Muhammad Ali Jinnah spent his most of his life fighting the establishment, the British representatives from Lord Mountbatten to Willingdon and Wavell found Jinnah’s forthrightness downright arrogant and aggressive.

Whereas it remains, of course, to be seen whether the controversy involving the Pakistani courts will be the beginning of the end of this round of military rule in Pakistan, the blow that the Judiciary and the lawyers community has already given to the Musharraf administration, however, represents a significant limitation on authoritarian rule, including introducing a viable alternative ruler into the political process.

When democracy returns to Pakistan, the courts will be seen by historians as having been at the very center of the process, the legacy seed of which was planted by Mr. Jinnah, when he singled himself out to protest on the ruling by Justice Davar on Indian Nationalist leader Bal Gangadhar Tilak back in 1916. (AIR1916Bombay9)

After the Parsee judge ordered the imprisonment of the Indian leader for 6 years, the British government conferred knighthood upon the justice, clearly in what was a case of judicial corruption. Nonetheless the Bombay Bar suggested that Justice Davar celebrate the “honor” with a dinner party, the RSVP of which went to Mr. Jinnah among others.

He was most displeased at the invitation and proceeded to write a note on the circular calling to shame the Bombay Bar for celebrating knighthood of a judge who “did what the government wanted it to,” and by sending a “great patriot” to jail with a savage sentence.

Justice Davar sent for Mr. Jinnah upon reading the note and asked him “why would you write a note like this against me?” to which Mr. Jinnah said that he wrote it because it was “the truth.” Justice Davar proceeded to ask the proud lawyer how he had been treated in his court. Mr. Jinnah replied that he no matter how well he was treated the Justice’s court, he “cannot suppress” that he felt very strongly about the way he had tried Tilak’s case.

It is the life of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, that lets Pakistan map its democracy.

Musharraf has bought off the religious parties like the Jamat-e-Islami which find it’s roots in the same obscurantist forces of the pre-partition era. The same that choked the voices of democracy then by vocalizing the radical forces in the Islamic camp while silencing moderates like Jinnah. But given the largest student rally against the Jamat-e-Islami student wing this week in Punjab University, it is clear that the same forces Musharraf is aligned himself with find themselves alienated in Jinnah’s Pakistan.

Musharraf also tried to buy the land-grabbing feudal parties in the Punjab to fill is support base, but spineless as they are, their real loyalties are with the land that monies their supporters and a threat of displacing that control over the lower class can easily get the general to be high and dry.

Democracy, however, Musharraf has failed to buy because it is fathered in Pakistan by the man who faced up the world’s most powerful empire, and didn’t even blink. Try though he may to attribute inconsequential similarities, Musharraf cannot claim that the occasional drink or the love of dogs can put him up on the memory wall next to the founder.

Pakistan still yearns for a free system of governance and is largely a democracy, in spite of Musharraf and the military not because of Musharraf. It is because of this reason he is chronically dependent on the legitimacy vote of the judiciary.

Much like a colonized state as it was in pre-partition, Musharraf’s state also allows elections but rigs the rules, downs the media and stoops down to harassing journalists, lawyers, entrepreneurs and political leaders alike He will utilize the state security apparatus to ensure that no effective challenge arises to his rule.

The state of affairs in Pakistan has taken such a drastic turn that it took the children of the founding fathers to write a joint appeal to the autocrat on November 17th to step down and remove the martial law. They also recalled that while addressing the American people in February 1948, Jinnah had said: “Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught us equality of men, justice and fair-play to everybody. We are inheritors of these glorious traditions.”

Referring to another speech on Criminal Law Emergency Powers Bill on Feb 6, 1919, they said Jinnah had declared “no man should lose his liberty without a judicial trial in accordance with accepted rules and evidence and procedure.”

One fails to understand how the growing need to associate with Mr. Jinnah leaves Musharraf little association with the ideals that the man stood for. Musharraf is ironically responsible for encouraging Zawar Hussain Zaidi, editor of the declassified Jinnah Papers, published by Oxford University Press. Musharraf was presented volumes of Jinnah Papers and thanked in appreciation of his work and for “lifting the spirit and devotion” of Mr. Zaidi’s colleagues “engaged in this national work of great importance.”

Pakistan’s judiciary has yet to rule on the numerous cases of judicial corruption under the Musharraf tenure, and the operation of military courts, signaling the judiciary’s subservience to the military and its lack of intention to act to uphold the constitution.

How can Musharraf claim to save Pakistan when there are more than 15,000 cases pending before the Supreme Court of Pakistan, over 3,500 other courts around Pakistan?

It was Mr. Jinnah who said, “The first observation that I would like to make is this: You will no doubt agree with me that the first duty of a government is to maintain law and order, so that the life, property and religious beliefs of its subjects are fully protected by the State.”

I would urge Musharraf to read Mr. Jinnah’s first observation again and for the judges who are due for the hearing in the case against the emergency in Pakistan, to re-read the Lawyer’s Oath.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

^ Thank you aisha

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaKpatriot1

You people who fail to realize the danger of having this corrupt dictator running the country.., Blind supporters of dictators.. If you want to count yourself among them then your more then welcome...

questioning others does not make me a blind supporter of anyone, please mind that in the future, shabash.

if u dont liek black, it does not mean u like white, comprende muchacho? if you are having problems understanding what I am saying just say so, I wille explain again. I have categorically stated, I am not supporting musharraf, and niether does questioning things like 'return to some so called democracy" makes me a military rule fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaKpatriot1

Yes you do need to get over the 90's. You people, yes YOU people, need to realize that regardless of what happened in the 90's Pakistan STILL needs democracy and it STILL need functional institutions...

please describe which 'YOU people' are you referringt to, I just need to understand which group some anonymous net politicians i placing me because that determines how seriously I take any posts by that person

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaKpatriot1

There are a number of things you forget, no govt was allowed to complete it tenure, so you honestly can assume anything... Nawaz Sharif for example, atleast in his first term, might have done some good.

sure, so as far as not completing its term, good god they did enough damage in the time they did have in office. shudder to think what they would have done in a full term, and yes some good things were accomplished, never said nothing good came out. and not just Nawaz, benazir too probably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaKpatriot1

Also, dont fool yourself into thinking that the Army wasnt calling the shot behind the scenes...

and, u think they will not be calling teh shots now, behind the scenes? dont fool yourself into thinking that they will not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaKpatriot1

Also, SIMPLE concept here... A DEMOCRACY, needs time to mature. If each govt is cut of automatically then thats not allowing democracy to mature.

sure, but if the military hand is still there than is it a democracy, of people are acting like czars as our civilian leaders did, would it be a democracy. no right? so our efforts should not be on restoring some version of alleged democracy we supposedly had but stand up and be counted for real democracy.

If the govt is corrupt, then you dont just throw out the govt, you bring it to trial... In a functional democracy, their is accountability, but that accountability can only be developed through strong institutions, SUCH AS AN INDEPENDANT JUDICIARY. In Pakistan, Democracy has never had a chance to mature because each time the military has stepped into destroy it. Thats why I cite India, because despite its dysfuntional sytem, they still managed to keep the system in place... (For all intents and purposes, their democracy has been their greatest strength.. They never had to call an emergency martial law to handle their many insurgencies.._)
Also, Musharaf has attacked the civil society, which could potentialy provide the country with a counter weight against the Army and the feudals. Thats another reason why there was so much hope this time, because the ground situation has changed from back in the 90's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaKpatriot1

Again, A DYSFUNCTIONAL DEMOCRACY WORKS FAR BETTER THEN A FUNCTIONAL DICTATORSHIP..

sure, except i dont call the civilian rule in pakistan as a dysfunctional democracy, I call it a civilian run dictatorship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaKpatriot1

We almost had a free Judiciary, but Musharaf has wiped that hope out.

and so did the previous civilian dictators who are now jumping up and down for indeoendence of judiciary, thus, we must take them to task and ensure that we support the right people and hold the people responsible. I mean if indoendence of judiciary is so cvritical for us, why are we upset if musharraf has done it and support Nawaz who is asking for reinstatement of the judges when he himself during his tenure attacked judiciary.

again...lets hold everyone accountable, enenmy of my enemy is my friend mentality is not going to get us anywhere.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Rebel, im not supporting Nawaz or Benazir... But a democratic sytem that is truly democratic, even with these two at the helm is preferable over this dictatorship...
A democracy with a real balance of power would inevitably make it so that the corruption these to dabbled in during their previous stints would be checks by the other democratic instituttions. Thats a big difference from the 90's when we had the exective competing with the military for power.

A dysfuntional democracy is preferable over a functional dictatorship... Plaine and simple...

Im not even a supporter of of the Chief Justice per say.. I do support him to the extent that he represents a truly democratic instituition that can provide the first genuine hope for real democracy in Pakistan..
No matter the feelings for Nawaz and BB, all politics aside, the indipendance of the judiciary and media should be top priority in Pakistan..
And we should support, atleast for now, who ever is in support of these institutions and willing to confront Musharaf who is the main hurdle in the way.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

truly democratic are the key words. and that is why I get ticked off when ppl talk about returning to democracy.

agree 100%

but a democracy, I agree. and what we had was not a dysfunctional democracy it was civilian dictatorship with military pulling some or many strings.

and that is where I have a little issue. I am all for clean and independent judiciary, but how can this guy be trusted, didnt he take oath on PCO earlier? he had already shown his lack of better judgement there, he could have taken a principled stand like the judges who did not take oath on PCO.

so a clean, independent and strong judiciary is critical,k one that operates in a responsible manner.

Thats where I differ, these politicians are playing on popular sentiments for their own greed for power. I can not support them. they use and spit out ppl, for example of that look at APDM. Imran seems to be the only one still sticking by it among major figures, rest seem to have backtracked. what did he get for throwing his weight behind these crooks? nothing.

while I am all for real democracy, free media, independent judiciary. I refuse to support any of these crooks.

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

Well, like they say, you gotta get wet if you wanna learn to swim... Pakistans gonna have to dive right back into a democratic govt. or whatever it may be before democracy can thrive...
The point is to simply allow the civilian parties to evolve, and allow the system to evolve... Even the most corrupt system will find its equilibrium IF its is allowed to progress. The electroate can make sure of that.

As for the current Chief Justice... He has stood up time and again for the little guy. On a number of occasions, he has called high ranking officials to Islamabad accused of corruptoin or misuse of power.. This is unprescedented.
There is a reason why he was suspended, and that being because he wasnt playing by the dictators rules or his chamcha parties rules. He stood out...
His conduct as an individual isnt as important as for the fact that he is standing up to the strongest and most entrenched institution in the country and challeneging their writ. That in itself is worthy of praise, that he stood up and in doing so, created an independant judiciary.

As for Nawaz and BB... There are far less of threat in genuine democracy... If the judiciary is there to keep and eye on them along with the media, then they will sort themselvs out... If they dont, then the electorate will kick them out, and this time, it will be offical and unquestioned.
But as bad as it is, and as bad as those who run it are, Democracy in itself is worth putting up with these people... They wont live forever, but the instituions that are built will lasts for generations.\
At the end of the tunnel is the light, and if we have to wade through mud and sewage to get their, then so be it.

We have (or had till the emergency), all that we need for genuine democracy to thrive... A demoralized military that under Kiyani would want to go back to the baracks, a vibrant media and civial society, a civil society that is challenging the writ of landlords and feudals, a growing number of politically active students, and offcourse, an independant and assertive Judiciary...

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

u had the same during the later years of zia's regime as well. did not do any good then.

PS: when supreme court bothers to listen to lyrics of a song, then u know they are not focusing on bigger issues, unless u really feel that song lyrics are a critical issue of national importance

Re: Justice Bhagwadas takes a stand..

God bless you for referring to Bhagwandas as a corrupt judge. Shameful indeed.