awww such a ncie story finally. all those jihadis licking their wounds from a clear kick on the ass in Baghdad and elsewhere need something to believe to keep their faith in AK47s intact. It is hard to admit defeat. Isn't it?
First millions Iraqi civilians killed.
then thousands marines dying but media hiding it.
then hundreds of US planes downed.
Info minister even claimed shooting down US missiles(one wonders with what?)
15 days of pointed bombing was so accurate that it did not leave any military assets intact. With that kind of damage any military would have fallen. Iraqis were not super humans. On top of that kids in Republican guards wanted to go home anyway as soon as Saddam falls. Rest will be legends for believers who can't believe their defeat.
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
he doesn't need to show up.. but just stay put wherever he is.. like Osama.. and the US can then 'find' him anywhere they want..
Syria has a bulls eye painted on them right now..
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But i doubt any military force will be used in that case of syria
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*Originally posted by JusticeIsBlind: *
Does anyone here really belive this??? Why would the U.S. agree to let all the Saddam regime escape, or help them all escape. Do any of you honestley believe that if the U.S. government had been in contact with S.H. even through contacts and operatives, that they would not just have him killed?.....
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On same token, do you really believe this war was about Saddam or WMDs? I am not accepting this news, but don't consider it as impossible either.
US officials made it clear before and during the War that they were in direct communication with generals encouraging them to give up the fight for Saddam and offering them all kinds of terms.
Frankly, I don’t think this could happen while Saddam was alive and/or in command and control. If this story is accurate, it leads me to believe that Saddam is, in fact, dead. Either by a US bomb or an Iraqi bullet in the head.
While many have thought that Saddam first became involved with U.S. intelligence agencies at the start of the September 1980 Iran-Iraq war, his first contacts with U.S. officials date back to 1959, when he was part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad tasked with assassinating then Iraqi Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-Karim Qasim
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*Originally posted by Rhia: *
^
so what was the need for Sahaf to stand lying through his teeth while buildings were being destroyed over his left shoulder?
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Maybe Sahaf didn't know he was lying or didn't know Saddam was dead or gone. Stories of Saddam killing people who told him bad news are legendary. I imagine that for so long as Sahaf thought Saddam was either alive or still in control and until a US Marine tapped him on the shoulder during one of his news conferences, he would lie about Iraq's dominance in the war.
I think the more interesting story is the delusional nature of many in the Arab masses who went along with this charade and believed it to be true despite broadcasted images of US tanks all over the Iraqi desert. Until they saw the Saddam statues being torn down by US tanks, they wouldn't believe the US was anywhere near Baghdad.
Maybe Sahaf didn’t know he was lying or didn’t know Saddam was dead or gone. Stories of Saddam killing people who told him bad news are legendary.<<<
Gee you dont say!
Sahaf’s grinning from ear to ear just before his disappearing act is more indicative of his pleasure at a job well performed than anything else.
The Arabs were no more delusional in their wake than any of the Americans who actually believed the ‘upsrising’ and flower treatment etc. anyway none of this actually solves what happened to saddam and co
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*Originally posted by Rhia: *
The Arabs were no more delusional in their wake than any of the Americans who actually believed the 'upsrising' and flower treatment etc. anyway none of this actually solves what happened to saddam and co
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Really?? Are you one of those people who think the people dressed up as Iraqi civilians were actually actors tearing down statues in Hollywood backlots? I suppose that Saddam head being ridden by those guys was actually being pulled through Sunset Blvd. I think the absence of flowers was probably attributable to seasonal weather conditions or sanctions more than anything else. Instead of flowers, the marines got cigarettes. Now that I think about it though, maybe that offer was designed to cause lung cancer in our soldiers and was not the friendly gesture I thought it was.
:)
Actually all I am saying is in time of war each party is as delusional as the other. but that still does not solve the problem of saddam or the spectre of wmds
On same token, do you really believe this war was about Saddam or WMDs? I am not accepting this news, but don't consider it as impossible either.
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I certainly don't believe this "war" was about WMD. I can see how Saddam would be a nice prize for Bush Jr and I'd be foolish to say it had nothing to with oil. IMHO if there were no oil in Arab countries, the U.S. wouldn't worry about deplomacy at all, they'd probably just plow the deserts one country at a time where they deem them to be "harbouring terrorist", regardless of world opinion.
You forgot about the leaflets they were dropping over iraq, telling the iraqi soldiers not to attack them and to give up there arms and surrender. Also they were in constant contact with iraqi army over military radios telling them to lay down there arms. You dont think they might have said YES and cuted a deal to lay down there arms for a safe haven? What about the iraqi fighter jets? Vanished? there is just soo much, if u really think about it, it will all make sense ;)
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I didn't forget about the leaflets. Propoganda telling the "enemy" to lay down their weapons and surrender isn't exactly the same as makeing a deal with the devil and still blowing up all his toys just for show.
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*Originally posted by spoon: *
Notice how this thread managed to get all the 'patriots' to finally materialize? Threatened??
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do you know what a patriot is?? does it only mean American to you? Are you yourself not patriotic? If not, could it be because your ideaology can't possibly exist in the real world.
As far as feeling threatened I can only speak for myself, I speak out in this forum when I have something to say, not just because I was provoked or feel threatened.
Lets look at the PR show bringing the statue down and how the US military manipulated the media, as the images were broadcast throughtout the world. The pictures taken form a distance tell a different story. Look at the # of people in the square and the tanks that are barricading the area. The whole drama seems staged.
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April 6th: Iraqi National Congress founder, Ahmed Chalabi is flown into the southern Iraqi city of Nasiriyah by the Pentagon. Chalabi, along with 700 fighters of his “Free Iraqi Forces” are airlifted aboard four massive C17 military transport planes. Chalabi and the INC are Washington favorites to head the new Iraqi government. A photograph is taken of Chalabi and members of his Free Iraqi Forces militia as they arrive in Nasiriyah.
April 9th: One of the “most memorable images of the war” is created when U.S. troops pull down the statue of Saddam Hussein in Fardus Square. Oddly enough… a photograph is taken of a man who bears an uncanny resemblance to one of Chalabi’s militia members… he is near Fardus Square to greet the Marines. How many members of the pro-American Free Iraqi Forces were in and around Fardus Square as the statue of Saddam came tumbling down?
The up close action video of the statue being destroyed is broadcast around the world as proof of a massive uprising. Still photos grabbed off of Reuters show a long-shot view of Fardus Square… it’s empty save for the U.S. Marines, the International Press, and a small handful of Iraqis. There are no more than 200 people in the square at best. The Marines have the square sealed off and guarded by tanks. A U.S. mechanized vehicle is used to pull the statue of Saddam from it’s base. The entire event is being hailed as an equivalent of the Berlin Wall falling… but even a quick glance of the long-shot photo shows something more akin to a carefully constructed media event tailored for the television cameras.
Well there are as many conspiracy theories around as there can be. But this one is more conveienet and not a far fecthed one. Anyways, lets see how many conradicting and suppportive theories are brought up.
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Almost 10 days ago, there was a halt in U.S.-British operations in Iraq. However, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the chief of the U.S. Central Command, General Tommy Franks, in their interviews with the media never elaborated on the issue, but instead tried to mislead world public opinion in order to hide a greater secret decision from them.
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Now this fact also bothered me. Before that halt in the US-UK operations Iraqi resistance was very strong, and in fact it had surprised the invading forces. But after that period and a resumption of the US-UK operations we saw a total collapse of the Iraqi forces, almost a wholescale surrender. These quite conveniant timings and occurences do lend weight to the theory that last minute deal was made between Saddam and the American's?
Remember it was at this time the US government started to say that they could not bring Saddam to an international war crimes tribunal, and that the Iraqi's would have to do that themselves.
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Nobody asked why Tikrit, that was once called the ideological heart of Saddam's government and the last possible trench of the Iraqi army, was never targeted by U.S. and British bombs and missiles.
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Clue number two. Can anyone explain why Tikrit was not targeted during the first weeks of the war, and why it still has largely gone undamaged by bombing?
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Therefore, Washington benefits from its inability to find the Taleban and Al-Qaeda leaders. The same holds true with Saddam, and the U.S. failure to find Saddam, or Washington's efforts to withhold news of his death, provide the best pretext to stay in Iraq.
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