Just a simple question

Why Shia Muslims use :as: (Alaih-Salaam) for Hazrat Ali :razi: , Hazrat Husain :razi: and rest of the Ahl-e-Bait? Do Shias use :as: for all sahabah? The reason I am asking because :as: is commonly used with prophets and :razi: is commonly used with sahabah. Although, one means “peace be upon him” and the other means “may Allah be pleased with him”; both are good wishes, but why :as: is used by Shia brothers for sahabah or Ahl-e-bait?

PS: I am not trying to debate or hurt anyone’s feeling. Just a question to which I want to know an answer.

perhaps coz they think he was the prophet:lahol:
I wonder if all of them think that.:konfused:
but they shouldn’t it’s very clear:)

^ No they do not think so :slight_smile:

Both titles are fine.

Nothing wrong with using :as: with Ahle bait.

No need for explaination cuz I dont think there is any issue

^ then what do they think?:-\

My experience tells me that any time a thread is started with the words "Just a simple question" it usually ends resembling a royal rumble in the WWE. :-)

Anyway, do we know the exact meanings of these two phrases, and why one is deemed reserved for the Prophets and the other for non-Prophets?

Check out any shia site :slight_smile:

Okey briefly

Their belief (in context of your question) is that Hazrat Muhammad :saw: is last prophet. After him guidence and obedience should be adhered to his family i.e 12 noble Imaams who are from Ahle-bait

well maybe some other shia brother can explain it..but RA means "may Allah be pleased with him"; and we believe Allah is already pleased with the Ahlebait..Ahle bait has done nothing but the Ibadat of Allah all their lives so we dont have to say "May Allah"

inuit and ravage could probably explain it better

Thanks Sheraz CT.

perhaps because on many occasions in the Quran, Allah has reserved “salaam” for His messengers…
37:181 for a general salam…
37:79,109,120,130 for Nuh, Ibrahim, Musa and Harun and Il-yaaseen…

there is a salaam in 27:59 where again i think “the selected slaves” means prophets because of the word “astafaa” (selected) as it is used for messengers elsewhere too…

9:100 shows the :ra: use for the sahaaba…
as does 48:18…
and 5:119 and 98:8 show the same used for other people who will enter paradise…

11:73 shows the messengers sending blessings on the “ahl-el-bait” of Prophet Ibrahim (as) but the words r “rehmat” and “barakaat” and no “salaam” seen here…
in earlier verses, salaam has been sent to Ibrahim and he is the one who replied to the angels…
his wife’s presence is proven by her reaction on hearing the glad tidings and the angels then saying what is mentioned in the verse…

but, overall i think 37:181 does imply a general rule of salaam for the Prophets…

sheraz, you overestimate my power to explain things.

certainly the notion that we consider Hazrat Ali (as) to be a prophet is completely incorrect. prophethood ends with the Prophet. if your opinions about shias are based on such fundamental misconceptions, i would urge you to consult a shia website to learn more about them. they’re 20 percent of your country’s Muslim population, and you probably need to interact with some of them on a daily basis.

One unquestionable shia resource would be

http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/p.php?p=shia’&url=Introduction

as far why we use alaihis-salam instead of RA, my understanding is that we trace that to Durood-e-ibrahimi, (..allahuma salle ala muhammadin (wa ale muhammad?) kama sallayta ala ibrahim wa ale ibrahim.. apologies for mistakes). since we consider Hazrat Ali to be part of the prophet’s aal (family), we say ale-his-salam when referring to him or any other member of the ahlul bayt.

Thanks armughal and ravage for your replies. Let be dare asking my Shia brothers another question: A friend of mine claims that Shia Muslims don't have tradition of memorizing the whole Qur'an, and you won't find any Hafiz among Shia Muslims.

The above could be completely incorrect and a misconception, but I am asking it very humbly, so that I could tell my friend what is right. Thanks.

I know that!

but I’ve heared that also kay wo Hazrat Ali (RA) ko prophet kehtay, maybe not not all of them.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Swera: *

I know that!

but I've heared that also kay wo Hazrat Ali (RA) ko prophet kehtay, maybe not not all of them.
[/QUOTE]

apni akal bhi use ker leni chahiye..idher udhar ki baatay nahi sun'ni chahiyen..
www.al-islam.org this will tell u all about us

Re: Just a simple question

**Imam Ali Ridha (AS) in the Palace of Mamoon Al Rasheed **
Imam Ali Ridha(A) our 8th Imam recited the following verse of Holy Qur’an in the palace of Mamoon al-Rasheed (to prove something else and not what I am writing here):

Imam said: People, tell me about this Ayah-e-Majida of Quran Majid.

Translation:
Yâ-Sîn. By the Qur’ân, full of wisdom, Truly, you (O Muhammad SAW) are one of the Messengers, On a Straight Path. [Qur’an 36:1-4]

*this translation isn’t in the original text, I just included it for the ease of other people who cannot read Arabic

What does the word “Yâ-Sîn” mean? "

Ulama said:

Abul Hassan! Its a straight simple thing, Yâ-Sîn means Hadhrat Muhammad Mustafa(PBUH) , and there is no doubt about it.

Imam Ali Ridha(A) said:-

"Listen! Allah ta’la has given such a rank/honor to Muhammad(PBUH) and Aale Muhammad(A) that people’s Aql cannot reach its reality.

Allah ta’la has saluted the Prophets but didn’t salute the Aal (descendants) of any prophet, Thus Allah says:

Translation:
Peace be upon Nûh among the 'Alameen!" [Qur’an 37:79]

Allah ta’la has said:

Translation:
Peace be upon Ibrâhim!" [Qur’an 37:109]

And (He) said:

Translation:
Peace be upon Mûsa and Hârûn! [Qur’an 37:120]

Unlike this, in the whole Qur’an Allah (swt) didn’t say this :-

That Peace be upon Aale Noah, Peace be upon Aale Ibrahim, Aale Musa and Aale Harun peace be upon them, BUT when the turn of Aale Muhammad came Allah ta’la said:

Translation:
Peace be upon Aale Yâ-Sîn. 37:130

After listening the lecture of Imam (A) Mamoon said:

I admit that only Maadin-e-Nabuwat can explain (Tafseer) it like this.

If Allah has saluted Aale Muhammad and has sent his Peace and Salam on them, then why should we use RA with their names and not AS ?

Above has been taken from Sheikh Sadooq’s 3ayun-e-Akhbar-ir-Ridha , and it is just a part of debate, not full debate..and yeah, the translation is mine, so there is a chance of some little mistake..

My Request
This topic was discussed on an other thread. But Sorry i could not find that thread in which a Sunni brother posted that Bukhari used AS for Ahle Bait (AS)?

Kindly give me the reference of those Hadith in which Bukhari and Muslim used AS for Ahle Bait(AS).

(AS) is used for Masomeens

This is a rule that we use (AS) for Masomeen. It not a rule that we use (AS) only for Prophets. As some people say.

For example:
Hazrat Maryam (AS) was a masoom, she was not a Prophet. Similarly we use (AS) for angle Jibrael (AS). He is not a prophet either but he was masoom. However this is another discussion that what kind of Masoom angle are and what kind of Masoom Prophets are.?

Ziarat Aal-e-Yaseen
Ziarat Aal-e-Yaseen is an important Ziarat of Imam-e-Zaman(a.s.). It is actually a Hadith Qudsi (direct saying of Allah(swt)) as reported in Mafatih-al-Jinnan.

http://www.jameatulquran.com/main_frame.htm offers specialized courses for memorization of the whole Holy quran

QUESTION:

What is the religious merit of memorizing suras of the qur’an? how does it compare to other actions such as namaz, etc?

ANSWER:

Memorizing the Holy Quran is a very commendable act. However, one must realise that nothing is comparable with Namaz - for it is the absolute basic one must do before any other acts however good they may be. If prayers (Namaz) is not accepted, then no other deed, however many and good they may be, is accepted.

Memorization (Hifz) of the Holy Quran is indeed a virtue much sought after. The rewards are also great. The Holy Prophet(SAW) has said that the number of levels in Jannah will be equal to the number of verses in the Holy Quran. For every verse we will be able to recite, we shall be elevated a level.

Note: Intentions are also crucial whilst memorizing quranic verses

Hafiz Riaz Hussain Najfi
Hafiz Syed Zulfiqar Ali Shah
Hafiz Qifayat Hussain
Hafiz Muhammad Ali

The above is just example of Shia Hafiz e Quran.

In Lahore, Pakistan I have seen a complete printed book which gives the list of famous Shia Hufaz e Quran from 1st century.

It’s my humble suggestion; before asking a question. First we have to search on internet. If difficult to find then we ask on forums by making a separate thread with a meaningful title and subject; with correct terminology and spelling so other members can easy judge about the thread before clicking on it. Some people don’t like to visit anonymous threads with meaningless heading, titles are subjects. Some people don’t have much time to see every thread. They simply go in which they have interest. If you have another question; please make another thread.

Wasalam

Re: Re: Just a simple question

if u read my post again, u can note that blessings have been sent on the ahl-e-bait of ibrahim (as) and of no other prophet in the Quran…

i am suer imam ali radha (ra) wud not have been so misinformed about the Quran to have uttered such a thing…

Re: Re: Re: Just a simple question

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *

if u read my post again, u can note that blessings have been sent on the ahl-e-bait of ibrahim (as) and of no other prophet in the Quran....

i am suer imam ali radha (ra) wud not have been so misinformed about the Quran to have uttered such a thing....
[/QUOTE]
Its Blessings and Mercy of Allahon Ahle Bait of Prophet Ibrahim Allah havent used the Term Salam.

[Shakir 11:73] They said: Do you wonder at Allah's bidding? The mercy of Allah and His blessings are on you, O people of the house, surely He is Praised, Glorious.
[Yusufali 11:73] They said: "Dost thou wonder at Allah's decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, o ye people of the house! for He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of all glory!"
[Pickthal 11:73] They said: Wonderest thou at the commandment of Allah? The mercy of Allah and His blessings be upon you, O people of the house! Lo! He is Owner of Praise, Owner of Glory!

Peace be upon him (Ibrahim(AS)

[Shakir 37:109] Peace be on Ibrahim.
[Yusufali 37:109] "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
[Pickthal 37:109] Peace be unto Abraham!

However for Aal e Yasin, Allah Used Salam (Peace be upon).

[Shakir 37:130] Peace be on Ilyas.
[Yusufali 37:130] "Peace and salutation to such as Elias!"
[Pickthal 37:130] Peace be unto Elias!

Your answer is not complete. Check my post again; if you cant accept; Who force you? Ask your Ullema. read their text. their old books, thinks are changing. They were all using Alay Salam for Ali (AS) Fatima(AS) Imam Hassan (AS) Imam Hussain(AS). Now few people born they even ask their followers; Dont use the word Imam for Hassan(AS) and Hassain(AS). so be careful. and on the other hand they are trying to write an article for Imam Yazid to post on internet. These are all followers of Mehmood Ahmad Abbasi.

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said, "Do not salute for me in short!" The companions asked, "What is saluting in short?" The Prophet replied, "Saying that Blessing of Allah be upon Muhammad." They asked, "what should we say?" the Prophet (PBUH&HF) answered, "Say: Blessing of Allah be upon Muhammad and his Ahlul-Bayt." In another wordings the Prophet replied: "Say: O Allah bless Muhammad and his household the same way as you blessed Abraham and his household. Verily you are worthy of all praise full of all glory!".

Sunni reference:

-al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, p225

This saying of the Prophet was in connection with the following verse of Quran which was related about the House of Abraham (AS):

They said: "Do you wonder at Allah's decree? The Mercy of Allah and His Blessings be upon you O people of the house! for He is indeed worthy of all praise full of all glory!" (Quran 11:73)
Moreover, Ibn Hajar also mentioned that some of the Sunni commentators of Quran have narrated from Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Quranic verse "Peace be upon the family of Yaaseen (Quran 37:130)" refers to the family of Muhammad. (See al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, p228).

From the tradition given earlier, one can see that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) mentioned his name and his Ahlul-Bayt together, and disliked mentioning his name alone. He specifically ordered that his followers SHOULD include his family in all their greetings to the Prophet Muhammad. This because ONLY those individuals whom Quran testifies to their perfect purity (the last sentence of Verse 33:33) are worthy of being saluted. Let us look at more traditions, this time from Sahih al-Bukhari:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 6.320
Narrated Ka'b bin Ujra:
It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! We know how to greet you, but how to invoke Allah for you?" The Prophet said, "Say: O Allah! Send your blessings/greetings (Salawat) on Muhammad and his family, the same way as You sent Your blessings/greetings on Abraham's family. You are indeed worthy of all praise, full of glory.'"
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 6.321
Narrated Abu Said al-Khudri:
We said, "O Allah's Apostle! (We know) this greeting (to you) but how shall we invoke Allah for you?" He said, "Say: O Allah! Send your greetings on Muhammad who is Your servant and Your Messenger, the same way as You sent Your greetings on Abraham's family. And send Your blessings on Muhammad and on Muhammad's family, the same way as You sent Your blessings on Abraham's family."
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 6.322
Narrated Ibn Abi Hazim and Ad-Darawardi:
Yazid reported (similarly with the following wordings) "...And send Your blessings on Muhammad and on Muhammad's family, the same way as You sent Your blessings on Abraham and on Abraham's family."
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.368
Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abi Laila:
Ka'b bin 'Ujra met me and said, "Shall I give you a present? Once the Prophet (saw) came to us and we said, 'O Allah's Apostle! We know how to greet You; but how to send Salat upon you?' He said 'Say: O Allah! Send your greetings (Salawat) on Muhammad and his family, the same way as You sent Your Salawat on Abraham's family. O Allah! Send Your blessings on Muhammad and on Muhammad's family, the same way as You sent Your blessings on Abraham's family. You are indeed worthy of all praise, full of glory.'"
Two more traditions are as follows:

Abu Masud Badri relates: (Once) we, were sitting with Sad bin Ubadah when the Holy Prophet came to us. Bashir Ibn Sad asked the Holy Prophet: O Messenger of Allah, we have been commanded by Allah to invoke blessings on you by reciting Salat, then how shall we do this ? The Holy Prophet kept quite for sometime, so much so that we wished that Bashar bin Sad had not asked the question from the Holy Prophet. After some time the Holy Prophet said these words :
O Allah, send Thy blessings on Muhammad and on the children of Muhammad as Thou didst send Thy blessings on Abraham, and bless Muhammad and the children of Muhammad as Thou didst bless Abraham. Indeed Thou art the praiseworthy, the Glorious. Continuing, the Holy Prophet said : and the salutation is already known to you.
Sunni reference: Riyadh al-Saliheen, by al-Nawawi, English version, Tradition #1406

Although the above traditions confirm that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) ordered people to send Salawat on him and his family. This can not be regarded as self-esteem, rather it was the order by Allah to do that. It served as teaching the Sunnah to people. Specially the highlighted part in the last tradition shows that the Prophet was hesitating to salute himself at first, but since it was the order of Allah, he conveyed the message. In another tradition:

When the Messenger of Allah noticed that a blessing from Allah was to descent, he told Safiyya (one of his wives): "Call for me! Call for me!" Safiyya said: "Call who, O the Messenger of Allah?" He said: "Call for me my Ahlul-Bayt who are Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain." Thus we sent for them and they came to him. Then the Prophet (PBUH&HF) spread his cloak (upper garment) over them, and raised his hand (toward sky) saying: "O Allah! These are my family (Aalee), so bless Muhammad and the family (Aal) of Muhammad." And Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, revealed: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a thorough purification (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)".
Sunni references:

al-Mustadrak by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, p148. The author then wrote: "This tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim)."
Talkhis of al-Mustadrak, by al-Dhahabi, v3, p148
Usdul Ghabah, v3, p33
Similarly, it is narrated that in another occasion, when the Messenger of Allah gathered Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, al-Husain (peace be upon them all) under his cloak, he said:

"O Allah! Verily they are from me and I am from them. Thus place Your blessings and Your mercy and Your satisfaction on me and them."
and:
"O Allah! These are Aale-Muhammad (family of Muhammad). Thus place Your blessings and Your bounty upon the family of Muhammad, for, indeed You are the praiseworthy, the Glorious."
Sunni reference:

al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, p225, quoted from Ahmad Ibn Hanbal

Also it is narrated that:

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "If one prays, and in it he does not send blessings to me and my family, his prayer will not be accepted."
Sunni references:

al-Darqunti, and al-Bayhaqi, as quoted in:
al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, p349
In fact, invoking Salawat on the Prophet's family was so important that it has been included in ANY Salawat on the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Invoking Salawat on the family of the Prophet is a sign of pledging allegiance to them, and affirming what Allah Himself has affirmed for them: They are perfectly cleansed and worthy of being saluted.


[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Swera: *
perhaps coz they think he was the prophet. I wonder if all of them think that. but they shouldn't it's very clear:)
[/QUOTE]

Swera nobody thinks that. I would have never converted to Shia (recently AlhamduLillah) if it was in Shia faith. And how do you know that this title only belongs to a prophet??

"Alayhi-s-Salam" meaning "peace be upon him". I am interested to know from where you concluded that Shia can not use this term for a non-prophet? Could you quote a verse from Quran or an authentic tradition that Shia can not use the phrase "Peace be upon him" after his (AS) name?

If we want to follow the Sunnah of Prophet (PBUH&HF), we are ORDERED by the above authentic traditions to send peace not only to Imam Ali (AS) but also to all the members of the House of Prophet. If the Prophet (PBUH&HF) ordered us to send Peace and blessing to his family, then who are we to set regulations in contrary to that and yet claim to follow the Sunnah of Prophet?

The phrase "May Allah be please with him" (RA) can be used for the companions, not for Prophet and his Ahlul-Bayt who are perfectly pure, flawless, and sinless.

then why dont we see u saying ayesha (aleyha salam) and usman (aleyhi salam)????

ali married one daughter of the prophet while usman married two....
and on the death of um-kalthoom he said if i had a third daughter i'd marry him to usman"....
so why do u deprive these ahl-e-bayt from the title????

Allah hidayat de aap ko… :rolleyes:
dont raise the level of humans to divinity…

there is a hadith which says “every child of Adam makes mistakes and the best of those who make mistake r those who repent”…