My response as posted on juooni site:
**Wow,
look who decided to drop in !! my attempt to get you to respond worked. I knew that you would read the replies to ure post, out of curiousity if not any other reasons.
Whether you would reply to them however, would depend on how threatened you felt by the comments. It looks like they did the intended damage
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
**
Like said earlier, doing it for alibeta. He got me here. I am also simulcasting over the other site to give the other junoonis an opportunity to butcher me. I will post their comments here in a bit. Like I said, thank alibeta. Btw, junoon knows him.
My main complaint against your post was that you said that you would not respond to it. Contradicting what you stated, you did… congratulations on your new found courage. My opinion of you has just gone up a notch ( if u care ).
Ab sharminda na kareiN.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/blush.gif
Mr. Ahmed ran away ? i like the way you are trying to twist the situation around..
These guys, do a show, have fun and then leave…it is the same everywhere they go. It is the way things are done all over the world …no one waits around saying…
i know..lets all have a town hall meeting where we can vote on the things we all liked and didnt like…
Maaloom hai, yaar. Un ki party thi show key baad. Aur phir unki flight thi subha meiN Toronto kay liey. Agley din unka Toronto meiN show tha. Mera yeh kehnay ka matlab yeh nahiN tha keh who log show key baad meiN intezaar kartey feed back ko. Agar aisa hota to meiN yahaN kiuN ata jab keh meiN unko itna jaanta nahiN hooN aur na hi mujhe koi khaas baat lagti hai in meiN. Yeh mera zaati khayaal hai.
this is totally different compared to a FORUM ! this is a place where people come to EXCHANGE views and communicate with each other.
No one says, ok listen to what i have to say…and then when its ure turn to speak, i will bury my head in the sand.
So ure attempted comparison is seriously flawed…kinda like comparing apples with oranges so to speak.
I am talking to Junoon here. Either in person or via another mechanism. I am talking to junoon here via the web.
>Your forum, your site. Do as you please. They came to my city and did something and ran >away. I should also expect to do the same. Wouldn’t you agree?
o…k…i dont know what ure perception of this forum is, but it is MY FORUM as much as it is URES !! there is no restriction on who can post…
I dont own this site, and neither do u, i dont see how dallas is URE city either,
most of all i dont see how it matters.
Dallas is my city by the fact that I live there. If I were to be living in Karachi, my birth city, I would call Karachi my city. This is the perception I have.
> But I reacted to the group. Not to you for you to react to me.
hold on buddy…by the same twisted way of thinking, junoon did not respond to u, they responded to some security guards…so why are U reacting to the group ?
Their response directly touched thousands. I don’t believe that’s twisted way of thinking. Like my responding to them is affecting you.
i mean, cmon yaar, u are under no obligation to respond to me if u dont feel like it…and neither is junoon obligated to respond to u..
i decided to defend Salmans conduct, and you decided to respond to me…plain and simple.
Exactly, they responded to the mgmt. and I got the hear their comments. They are not obligated to respond to me? Why say things that they want to when there are thousands of people around. Yes, they should appologize.
As a poster said on pak.org:
“I have little respect for someone that will ignore the amount of influence he/she has on the masses and will behave in manners that are totally unacceptable. And yes, this includes using profanity in a public environment. Though you may consider it minor, this type of behaviour on the part of someone like Salman can have immense impact on the group’s popularity.”
>Hugh? I belief you are just joking here. We are Pakistani so I guess you have me lost on >your statement.
sure, u are pakistani, no one said u werent. i was just referring to the fact that these ‘morals’ etc. u were trying to uphold etc. etc. are mere perceptions of what
u BELIEVE them to be… thats ok, everyone has their own unique view of things.
BUT, u have never experienced living in pakistan, so if i were to take a bet on whose values etc. were closer to a REAL and up to date with pakistani societies, then i would bet on someone who has lived in pakistan !!! not someone who THINKS he knows what they should be like.
…as Sayonee has already pointed out, you have taken in upon yourself to uphold this obsolete concept of morality that only exists in ure head..
Morality changes? I have grown up as a Muslim, an average Muslim in the country you call “The Great Satan”, but I know that, go to this extent, the Quran tells us what morality is. People change not morality. Morality has been defined for us itll the day of judgement. That will not change. You know it and I know it. It’s just a matter of our level of faith, understanding, and accepting it that ultimately decided of much of it we implement.
take a chill pill and learn to live a little. No one is encouraging kids to swear, or anything of the sort.
I will add a comment here from one of our beloved guppeis:
“I am not asking all this to belittle you. I am merely trying to make you understand that there are very simple ways to determine what is right and what is wrong. First there is this little voice inside all of us that tells us…if we manage to quash that voice, there are other voices, outside…like those of our mother and father, those of our most cherished elders, our respected teachers and alims. All these voices tell us what is right and what is wrong.
Trust me, you would not like to be referred to as an “ulla ka patha”, nor would your father appreciate it. Figure out for yourself why. I know you can.”
>If one is from a heritage and has been brought up with the same traditions, values of >that heritage then that person has a pretty good idea of what is right and wrong within >the context of those traditions and values.
I think this statement is WAAAY off, in the 60’s, blacks werent allowed to even go to the same schools as white kids in the USA…the land of the free etc etc.
who could have even imagined a girl wearing JEANS in islamabad or karachi till recently ?
60 and early 70’s In Iran, it was illegal, can u believe it ? illegal to wear a veil ( hijab ) and now it is illegal NOT to!
the point is, things change really fast…and if u think that over the last 30 years, things have remained the same in pakistan then i rest my case..
u have a good idea of what values and traditions and customs were like 30 years ago…that much i agree.
I guess you are right. But, is it? So, you want to be like the westerners. While we in the west strive to hold on to our past. I guess you present a very interesting argument here.
**>And that is not considered bad for a child of this age to say something like >this!!!
I am sure you are saying that just for the sake of saying this . . . like a ‘up yours’ >comment?
it is, bad to say it…kinda like “darn” in america…ure making a really big deal out of nothing dude.**
This indicates the depth the society has sunk to. I seriously doubt it. Next time you are in a party with ladies, children and old folks try getting on the mike and say this profanity. If is it nothing and has no meaning in your society then so be it. I have then treaded on the wrong ground.
>Yes. And it does not sound, in this diction, coming from the mouth of a 3 year old. I >know. I have 5 children: 7 mos, 5, 7, 9, 12
listen, im not telling u how to raise your kids, but how long are u going to raise ure kids in a glass jar ?? they are going to experience the real world soooner or later..
they might as well experience it while u are still around to explain it to them.
if a 12 year old needs his ears covered when someone says ullu ke patthay then i think he will have alot of fun when he goes to college.
No, they are not living in a glass jar. My kids understand that if two guys hold hand they are gays, they know what french kiss it (have you used it or seen it or know what it is?), they know that the dick is a butt-knocker, they know how babies are made and not bought from a hospital, they fight and get angry and call each other ****in’ bitch. I take appropriate action on that.
>IT IS awsome that such a group has come out of Pakistan.
IT IS, awesome that such a group has come from pakistan to open up peoples minds to new and exciting things…we cant live in the 70s forever ..
people and attitudes change, and i am glad that junoon is there to accelarate the process.
I wouldn’t know what you are talking about here. Don’t know them to see what they are opening peoples’ minds to.
last of all,
i dont see why u get offended at some people having fun at a concert !
No. What’s the use of going to a concert if you can’t have fun.
does it offend u to see a random couple holding hands on the street ?
There is an age at which thing should get exposed. Holding hands is fine. We do it.
they do their thing and u do ures…some people dance at concerts and some people are busy covering the ears of their kids…
I haven’t seen anyone who covers the ears of their children. Mr. Ahmad is a public figure and when he comes on to the stage and demeans himself he can make a difference in the minds, attitudes, and behaviors of people. What he says on the stage carries far greater meaning then intended. Just because he said just a thing does not make it acceptable to the point that we forget that it is a profanity that you wouldn’t use to describe others infront of your parents.
no one is forcing u to participate in this ‘behuda’ activity.
It’s not behuda. You are taking it the wrong way.
most of all, HOW are 100 odd people dancing in a hall endangering people ??
i dont think anyone has ever been hurt at a junoon concert due to dancing ..
like why get insurance….right? How many times have your gone out on the road and gotten hurt. Things have a way of happening. Laws and regulations are made to ensure they don’t happen in the future. If they don’t, great, but what if?
and u know what ? there is a reason for it too…its perfectly safe..trust me, i have done it many times and am proud of it.
Do u seriously think that any band would like to see their fans get hurt ??
what does junoon gain out of a few fans dancing ?? money ?
NO…people are there to have fun, and as long as they do so without infringing on anyone elses right to do the same in a safe manner, then i think it is GREAT !
As long as the function is being held on someone’s property who wants to apply the existing laws and regulations then how can you say they are wrong? The band is not responsible for the safety of the fans. The hotel is. They are on the spot for this. And they are going to make sure that things go according to the existing policies and procedures.
seriously speaking, it is a judgement call, and junoon ( in my opinion rightly so ) allow their fans to dance and express themselves…
if anything were to happen then they would be responsible because they incited the behaviour.
just enjoy the show and let the organizers / management / junoon worry about the safety issues…i think they are more experienced than u ever will be.
Like said, if anything were to happene, in the U.S., Junoon will be responsible but the hotel is the property owner and they have the ultimate right to ensure the safety of others including the band. A guy had managed to climb on the stage during the show. Police escorted the guy out of the hall.