Judging others

Today in the Jumma prayers, the imam raised some interesting points.

He said that these days due to easy access of Quran and Hadith every one seems to become an authority on Islam. If a person learns about surgery procedures, will we trust a guy who has superficial knowledge or those who are experts in their field? Now a days people do not refer to the aalims, and consider themselves to be the authority on Islam. He expanded on this and said that if a guy holds the wall of the prophet’s (SAW) grave how can we label that guy as a Biddati or Mushriq? Can we really glance into his heart to find out about his level of Imam? Another point he raised was that these days some people claim that the prophet (SAW) was an ordinary person, how can he be an ordinary person when Allah has sweared by the life of the prophet?

What do you guys think?

Re: Judging others

Yesterday, an anonymous facebook page admin shared some ideology of Maulana Maududi. an SSP guy commented there "ye to khud kafir tha".
these guys are muqalladain and follow the doctor-patient philosophy when following any opninon. When i asked him why do you say so, he replied ask ulema they have issued fatwa that Maulana Maududi was gustakh e rasool and and gustakh e sahaba so was kafir.
I have heard something similar for Deobandi and brelvis from Wahabhis and for Wahabis from Brelavis and Deobandis. And excerpt you shared seems from speech of some brelvi scholar.
This happens in subcontinent only, across all the sects be they are muqallad or ghair muqallad. And these subcontinent people think that they are thekedar of Islam.

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The imam admitted that some people do carry out grave worshipping but still we can't read their hearts. With the passage of time as the information is getting common maybe we are becoming more and more arrogant too.

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This mosque is not a barelvi one, for a moment I was stunned myself. I think people have started to understand the impact these fatwas/counter fatwas against each other are having on perception of Islam itself.

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The more important distinction is not muqalid or ghair muqalid ... The more important distinction is takfiri and ghair takfiris ... Takfiris can be from any group or persuasion as can be the ghair takfiris.

I would like to be associated to the ghair takfiris.

Re: Judging others

Peace Ali_Syed,

I agree with you what you wrote in post #1. I think the knowledge (judging others) on the basis of our own research is like a black & white knowledge, means one side of it is clear(as mentioned in Quran/Hadith) but on the other side its is totally black for us (unaware from the opinions of School of Thoughts, Ulema, Shaikhs, Scholars etc.). That kind of knowledge is dangerous for oneself as well as for others, if we pass it on.

I think it we don't have any authority to judge others, until we pick an Imam out of four, study and understand its opinions, compare those opinions with remaining Imams and then conclude whether a person's act is correct or wrong.

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wernt you making takfir when you said, the victorious Islam ideology of ikhwanis is like jewish ideology?

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You are right. It is not important if you are muqalid or ghair muqalid. As long as you have reason to follow a way of life and beliefs that you can back from Quran and hadith, without malice but with sincerity, than you should be fine.

A Muslim judges other person regarding faith on the person’s confession or claims. No Muslim, religious scholars, or even prophet (SAW) and past prophets (AS) had right to judge a person's faith other than on basis of what a person confesses ... and that is why whenever a person claimed that they accepted Islam (religion of Allah), all prophets (AS) accepted that, even though many who confessed were munafiqs ... who just claimed but did not accepted Islam from their heart (Abdullah bin Abi is considered as one of them). Once a person claims or confesses that he/she is Muslim, then only Allah has right to judge belief of that person (with one exception, and that I would come later with reason).

Every Muslim thinks what they believe is right Islam and accordance with what Prophet (SAW) taught Islam to Muslims, regardless of what other sect or group of Muslims thinks about someone’s beliefs. Anything wrong with belief is part of Allah’s decision on judgment day.

Takfeeri: Once a person do takfeer on basis of his judgment (or judgement of someone he consider Aalim or scholar), then on basis of his takfeer he can be called Kafir and his takfeer can be taken as his confession that he is not Muslim.

Why: Apart of hadith there are other reasons too (I will come to hadith later).

1: Takfeeri thinks (though may not express or claim) that he is Allah or has right same as Allah, and thus has right to judge Muslims (that he shows practically by doing takfeer).

2: Takfeeri thinks that what he believes is Islam and what others believe is not Islam, without realising that all Muslim believe that they are following correct Islam, and without realising that only Allah knows who has correct believes, and that it is right of Allah to judge people’ believes.

3: Takfeeri do not even realise that what ‘Islam’ he believes could be kufr in the sight of other Muslims, but as long as Takfeeri do not do takfeer (does not become takfeeri), other Muslims accept him as Muslim.

4: Takfeeri not only think that his believes are fact and true Islam (in this respect, every Muslim thinks that their believes are fact and true Islam) but takfeeri starts judging other Muslims on basis of what Takfeeri believes (something Muslims do not do, because they know that it is right of Allah)

Hadith: If a Muslim does takfeer on other Muslim than one of them is truly kafir.

From hadith, it is obvious that takfeeri is Kafir.

Why: No Muslim becomes Kafir because someone called him kafir. Only Allah can decide that on judgment day. Deciding kufr of a Muslim is prerogative of Allah … as kufr of a Muslim is to do with neyat … and thus is part of Iman that is in a person’s heart. All Muslims know that only Allah knows about Neyat and we cannot judge anyone on basis of neyat or neyat behind an act … but takfeeri does.

Hence, since called cannot become kafir just because someone called him Kafir, then it becomes obvious that caller (takfeeri) is Kafir, and thus takfeer of takfeeri becomes his confession that he is kafir.

Once a person become takfeeri, he can be called kafir by Muslims without becoming takfeeri, as calling that person kafir would be on takfeeri's own confession (that he is takfeeri hence kafir).

[As far as I know ... Ikwanis backing Saud (of Najd-Arabia) were Takfeeris ... and were using takfeer to kill Muslims ... hence ........ ]

Re: Judging others

No ... I wasn't making takfir.

If there are any aspects of aqeedah then one can voice their concern but in a way that invites to a better understanding, but this is not even a matter of aqeedah, it is a political stance of whether Islamic governance should be militarily established or not ... It is far from making takfir ... Even the Ahl-al-kitab and the people of sectarian groups such as Ahmadis I call inclusively and do not do takfir on them, except by what they themselves say of their beliefs and I respond using the statement of ulema that such beliefs are wrong, but ... I do not separate myself from them ... I do not belong to a cult that I separate myself from others ... I merely try to approach common goals and understandings.

Re: Judging others

so can say others. so who is to decide on how takfir is made? you will decide yourself?

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I dont get what exactly in his post pointed towards labelling any one takfeeri or otherwise.

Re: Judging others

post #156 in following thread
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/all-views/621969-rabia-four-fingers-sign-8.html

Well psyah would try to hide behind the technicalities but reality is what i have mentioned already.

Re: Judging others

Ali, I mentioned Muqallad people because Muqalladin claim taqleed of imams. So theoratically, there is no chance of "mis-judging" by muqalladain as they follow not their own or self made opinions.

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What is takfir and who is a takfiri ?
Is someone who calls other muslims non muslims a takfiri ?

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Even the ghair muqallid's follow scholars from their their school of thought (like Zakir Naik, Maududi and others). I think even Ahl e Hadith people fall into this category.

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My simple plea is that one cannot simply look into the hearts of others to issue fatwas against them. Its Allah's jurisdiction to decide who is on the right path, and to punish/award him accordingly. This business of fatwas has served to damage Islam instead of strengthening it.

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I still don’t know what is takfir and who is a takfiri.:bummer:

Re: Judging others

Saleem Bhai, she is talking to you. :hehe:

Re: Judging others

aap on ko direct headmaster k pass bhej rahy ho :smiley:

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“takfiri” is one who is in habbit of calling others non-muslims on difference of opinion or the one in habbit of implying so.