Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

ninja_hattori · September 11, 2012, 5:14pm

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Last person to answer this post wins!!!!

Peace All

There were times when Muslims had to migrate, there were times when Muslims had to accept loss, there were times when Muslims formed treaties, there were times when we Muslims defended ourselves, there were times when us Muslims waged the offensive to defend others … each have their own contexts … and each have a basis.

One thing that Muslims have never done - is live in oppression.

All conflicts in Islamic history, that we take our references and template models from, were organised and leadership was in place. Today we do not have such a blessing. It means that we are forced to assume jihad at a level that is within our remit.

In the absence of Ummah leadership the buck falls on the regional leadership in the absence of regional leadership the buck falls on community leadership. If a given community is attacked through its own local leaders a motion to defend themselves is permissible. Just as it would be permissible for a man of his household to use force and damage to a person who comes on to his property to defile its people or the premises itself. There are people who travel to locations looking for communities and households that are being attacked and help defend them … but there are also a lot of wolves in sheep clothing - looking to extend a personal political motive in the guise of helping a people fight a common foe …

The picture that is being painted by the Western media is that this fighting is somehow a network of global jihad - which is nonesense. It is rather a series of separate situations and various groups intervene either helping or claiming to help.

There are in modern wars at least 4 parties involved - it is seldom a 2 sided thing these days. A lot of the sentiments against Jihad (in the fighting - qatl context) stem from the media that have systematically trained our ears to hate it - by naming and shaming the suicide bombers and associating their acts to Jihad. In reality the majority of suicide attacks are symptoms of rage and despiration. That any human can exhibit if pushed to it.

War is also being waged in the minds of people - war has always been a psychological game as well. The media has a role to play in this … to think otherwise is naiive. Yes, it would be good to engage in the war of opinions in this day and age … to help gain support and understanding. Sitting where we are sitting it is hard to know what is really happening - We also know that severely inhumane acts are done by Western forces and “officially recognised” regimes which create the reactions - the reactions that are being portrayed as Jihad - whereas they’re not that at all.

Jihad is about struggle - to use judgement in a situation when the body is in combat mode takes a lot of discipline … The references are countless: Fighting in the Way of Allah (SWT) constitutes:

a) No desire to harm anyone unless necessary
b) Provision to take prisoners with dignity and to provide options for being let go
c) To favour defensive moves over offensive ones - unless it is impossible to do so

How this topic fits with the OP however I don’t know - can someone please explain? I don’t know enough about the judge fort case …

Beautiful post psyah brother:k:

queer · September 11, 2012, 5:15pm

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

he is going to die? did you just try him before the court did? such drama queens...

Enterprise · September 11, 2012, 6:26pm

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

He is not being tried in regular courts but is being court martialed by the army. Different rules and standards in a military court martial.
Mr Hasan accepted them all when he joined that US army. He never had any beard before and can wait until his trial is over and he is officially kicked out of the us army.
He will have the rest of his life to grow a beard in prison.

Med911 · September 11, 2012, 6:47pm

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Ayn Bhan Shayan, :). Anything that requires thought is Ayn Bhan Shayn to you…
Islamic sense in wanting to be Shaheed the same as anyone wanting to die for a cause and being rewarded in the after life. That is not a concept unique to Islam. Martyrdom is something found through out religions and cultures. So yes, I should hope that I die for a purpose instead of dying for no reason.

Everything is irrelevant. We all have read the references in the Koran to Jihad. Thats not the issue. The issue was whether Jihad that does not further your goal, and killing in the name of Jihad when that killing serves no purpose is worthy of being called Jihad or not. The closest you came to answer the question was when you sid we should simply fight in Jihad withour consideration for its outcome etc. But then that sound grossly irresponsible to me, and seems to be recipe for disaster, because even though will fight and die, the consequences will be that those you are fighting for are even worse of for it. Now the question is, if you knowingly engage in futile war, calling it Jihad, and knowing it will cause more not less misery, are you culpable? Is a person like Nidal, knowing his crime would only make matters worse, are his actions worthy of those of a mujahid, or are they the acions of a bitter, angry and hateful person who commited a crimes in the guise of Islam.

Im free these days. i certainly dont have time to go through entire books full of useless nonsense just to suite you.

Good job with the smilies, you seem very clever and edgy!

Now try again…

psyah · September 11, 2012, 9:47pm

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Salams bao bihari

I have now read the account of the shooting and it seems to me that there was absolutely no regard given by Hasan. Whether this is allowed or not I can't say ... Would this be an example of a pre-emptive strike or just blind murder ... I'm sorry I would not know and there is not enough information around for me to ever know ...

Let's see how his resurrection takes place in the Aakhira shall we ... and reserve judgement for Allah (SWT) to make.

CEO1 · September 11, 2012, 9:57pm

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

He committed murder. It's as simple as that. He will be tried and most likely found guilty with the verdict of the death penalty. Why even bring Islam into this?

His actions were far from Islamic. Killing his own team. Regardless of being a Muslim or not. That is just down right messed up. No sympathy for him. There are proper ways of showing discontent. His actions just show he is a coward and a murderer.

Med911 · September 12, 2012, 1:24am

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Bao Bihari is among those so absurdly offensive that its almost certain he is a troll.

I mean to assume this man is a Mujahid is despicable. It is not only an insult to those who needlessly lost their life to this loon, but also to Islam.

Not only did he betray his oath to his country, but also violated his oath as a doctor to do no harm...

psyah · September 12, 2012, 10:20am

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Let's see what Allah (SWT) has planned for him shall we?

bao_bihari · September 12, 2012, 10:53am

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Med911:

Ayn Bhan Shayan, :). Anything that requires thought is Ayn Bhan Shayn to you...:) Islamic sense in wanting to be Shaheed the same as anyone wanting to die for a cause and being rewarded in the after life. That is not a concept unique to Islam. Martyrdom is something found through out religions and cultures. So yes, I should hope that I die for a purpose instead of dying for no reason.

Everything is irrelevant. We all have read the references in the Koran to Jihad. Thats not the issue. The issue was whether Jihad that does not further your goal, and killing in the name of Jihad when that killing serves no purpose is worthy of being called Jihad or not. The closest you came to answer the question was when you sid we should simply fight in Jihad withour consideration for its outcome etc. But then that sound grossly irresponsible to me, and seems to be recipe for disaster, because even though will fight and die, the consequences will be that those you are fighting for are even worse of for it. Now the question is, if you knowingly engage in futile war, calling it Jihad, and knowing it will cause more not less misery, are you culpable? Is a person like Nidal, knowing his crime would only make matters worse, are his actions worthy of those of a mujahid, or are they the acions of a bitter, angry and hateful person who commited a crimes in the guise of Islam.

Im free these days. i certainly dont have time to go through entire books full of useless nonsense just to suite you.

Good job with the smilies, you seem very clever and edgy!

Now try again...

I have made my point , it is upto readers to see what is relevant and what is not.

There is no needy to be personal , we can have difference of opinion but what i think is not healthy for your eeman is not knowing a subject and then commenting on it. I request you to refrain from doing this.

Mind it , you know nothing about fiqh of jihad and how when and who can do jihad. Resources i have provided are enough for you to gain some knowledge. It is never to late to learn.

I wont comment on Nadal, his fate will be decided by ALLAH, one thing is sure that i do not have sympathy for the service men killed by him, they were combatants to be deployed in afghanistan . This is different from faysal shazad case, where he was killing innocent civilians, i condemn faisal's action.
You said this jihad do not further muslims goal, this is your opinion, alqaedah and allies consider this other wise and they have reasons for this, this is why i requested you to read some related material.
I wont be posting on this thread any more unless you have some direct / relevant query.

Med911 · September 12, 2012, 8:43pm

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Not really... But to you your oppinion, to me my own.

Your material was available to me before you presented it, and I have drawn my own conclusions based on reason and logic. you can choose to shun either or both, but dont assume you credibility is established by simply posting references we all had available to us.

You should take your own advice. Using your god given capacity for reason is not a sin. Blind faith however is worse then no faith.

chaibiskut · September 13, 2012, 4:02am

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

I can only marvel at your generous benefit of doubt when it comes to a Muslim killing non-Muslims. It's interesting how you can't so much as spare a harsh word for this guy; it's like it's physically painful for you to do. You can't even comment on the ramifications of his actions for Muslims in Afghanistan or America. The most you can muster is 'I don't know if this is murder, I don't think I can ever know, let Allah decide.' You don't know if it's murder? You don't think you can ever know? It's that grey an issue for you? Then why don't you also let Allah decide about blasphemers and apostates instead of condoning their harassment? Why are you so sure of what's in their hearts, but insist on reserving your judgement for a Muslim firing on his non-Muslim comrades? Unequivocal condemnation when you deem fit, and moral relativism when it's convenient. Nice.

Muslims really are their own worst enemies.

chacha_Ghalib · September 13, 2012, 4:25am

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

^ I was gonna pick on the convenient "let Allah decide" when it concerns a muslim. However, couldn't have made my point so eloquently.

ninja_hattori · September 13, 2012, 4:40am

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Marine to serve no time in Haditha, Iraq killings case

bao_bihari · September 13, 2012, 4:59am

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

^ wait for some justification for this by our noble knowledgeable posters. :)

May be iraqis belonged to alqaeda?

May be they themselves asked this pious man to shoot them?

May be his gun was remotely controlled by alqedah people?

May be it was just friendly firing?

Ghalti dosoton hi say hoti hay?

Really opposite of the traits of muslims in quran

[QUOTE]

سُوۡرَةُ الفَتْح

مُّحَمَّدٌ۬ رَّسُولُ ٱللَّهِۚ وَٱلَّذِينَ مَعَهُ ۥۤ أَشِدَّآءُ عَلَى ٱلۡكُفَّارِ رُحَمَآءُ بَيۡنَہُمۡۖ تَرَٮٰهُمۡ رُكَّعً۬ا سُجَّدً۬ا يَبۡتَغُونَ فَضۡلاً۬ مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ وَرِضۡوَٲنً۬اۖ سِيمَاهُمۡ فِى وُجُوهِهِم مِّنۡ أَثَرِ ٱلسُّجُودِۚ ذَٲلِكَ مَثَلُهُمۡ فِى ٱلتَّوۡرَٮٰةِۚ وَمَثَلُهُمۡ فِى ٱلۡإِنجِيلِ كَزَرۡعٍ أَخۡرَجَ شَطۡـَٔهُ ۥ فَـَٔازَرَهُ ۥ فَٱسۡتَغۡلَظَ فَٱسۡتَوَىٰ عَلَىٰ سُوقِهِۦ يُعۡجِبُ ٱلزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِہِمُ ٱلۡكُفَّارَۗ وَعَدَ ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ ٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتِ مِنۡہُم مَّغۡفِرَةً۬ وَأَجۡرًا عَظِيمَۢا (٢٩)

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel - like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers -** that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them**. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward. (29)
[/QUOTE]

kaka_in_usa · September 14, 2012, 7:15am

Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

he can forcibly kill people, but the law cannot forcibly shave him!!

If this guy was in any other country then he would have been strung by his bails and no body would be discussing this.

He is a worthless scum who not only betrayed his country but also brought bad name to his religion. he is a dead meat anyways, shave him or shove him, i dont care.