Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

^ i dont know, but if one has to make a choice the one should always prefer your deen.

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ تَوَفَّاهُمُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ ظَالِمِي أَنفُسِهِمْ قَالُوا فِيمَ كُنتُمْ قَالُوا كُنَّا مُسْتَضْعَفِينَ فِي الْأَرْضِ قَالُوا أَلَمْ تَكُنْ أَرْضُ اللَّهِ وَاسِعَةً فَتُهَاجِرُوا فِيهَا فَأُولَٰئِكَ مَأْوَاهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ وَسَاءَتْ مَصِيرًا

translation english
an-Nisa` 4:97

This is what dajjal will offer, peace-Prosperity-Health all in place of loosing one eeman.

Lecture ended. :slight_smile:

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

This would've made sense, if this was an infiltration op somewhere important. The casualties were sad but they weren't significant enough to affect the war effort. All they did was alienate the Muslims living in the US. Now organizations will think twice about recruiting a Muslim.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Joining the Army might have been the wrong thing to do, but killing people wasn't the only way out.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

^^ that is infact more better. Why support them pay them taxes giving them resources to kill muslims world wide.

What nadal did was reaction to what US army is doing, have you heard the american troops confession videos @ Iraq Veterans Against the War | You are not alone ?

I am no one to judge on what intention nadal had, i am just happy that muslims killers suffered a blow.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

agreed.

Innocent americans are equal to innocent afghans in my opinion.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Nadal is an idiot. His actions havent helped anyone or saved any of Muslims anywhere. in fact, he made things MUCH worse.

To support him for doing something so blatantly stupid and counter productive is an expression of ego, and nothing more. You simply have blood lust.

As Muslims, you are supposed to AVOID bloodshed, you dont go looking for people to kill.

As far as I know, you only kill when it is a necessity, and even then, if aggression is feasible. Another words, if attacking and killing your enemy has no effect on the war as whole, and has no strategic value, well then it better to not kill at all.

And Nadal couldn’t have been so stupid as to believe his actions would be helpful to any Muslim, any where. He knew his actions would only increase problems for Muslims. Yet he did what he did anyway, because he had the lust for blood, and vengeance, neither are valid under Islam. Yet to justify his crime, he used the veil of Islam, making his sin even worse.

Vengeance and hate are not valid reasons to kill.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

*Teri zulf main pohanchee tau husn kehlai

Wo terrgee jo meray nama e siyah main hay

*This was all he could do to support muslims in afghanistan.

Qitaal in islam has strict and clear rulings, if one can not follow them ,the jihad becomes fissad. On the other hand it is one of the shortest way to jinnat, and not doing qitaal when needed is bench mark of munafiqeen.

See some links , will update with better references later inshallah

Tafheem ul Quran Index

Tafheem ul Quran Index

Tafheem ul Quran Index

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Mr Hassan can spend the next 40 years of his life growing a beard. Most likely, he will be in solitary during this entire period....the loneliness of not talking to anyone for the rest of his life will make him really mental.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Well he didnt do anything for Muslims in Afghanistan. Thats clear. If anything, he only increased the fasad in Afghanistan. So your support for him is in contradiction of Islamic teachings and he should be classified as a Fassadi, not a Mujahid.

There are people who are doing actual things to help Muslims that does not involve murder or terrorism. They have also put their life on the line. Ever heard of Doctors without Borders?

What he did was not in support of Islam or Muslims, it was simply to satisfy is lust for blood, and his hatred. Both are clearly against Islam.

Correct me if im wrong, but there is a reason why ever Tom, Dick and Abdullah isnt allowed to simply declare Jihad against whom ever he likes willy nilly. Who gave this turd the authority to decide his “Jihad” is justified?

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

^ so do you think there is any place in the world where correct jihad is being practiced.?

Answer this then inshallah i will answer your question.The answer is in your reply :)

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

No not really... Everywhere has shown that aggressive warfare has only increased not lessened the misery of the common Muslim.
It is evident that Jihad, especially the kind that involves suicide bombers and mass murder, is counter productive and results in more warfare not less.

Perhaps there are places where Muslims it can be argued are justified in defending themselves, but I cant think of any place where Jihad is "correctly" practiced, whatever that means... Can you?

Jihad doesnt mean blindly firing at anything that moves. It requires foresight and strategy. If your Jihad does not meet its intended goals, and instead produces the opposite, then your Jihad invalidated. To continue to murder under such circumstances is no longer Jihad, its stupidity.

Hence, Nadal should be admonished, not treated as hero as you do. He is stupidity in the flesh and his actions should not be associated with Islam in any way.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Then please read what jihad - Qitaal fi sabel illah is before you comment on this ibadah.

This is a sincere advice from a muslim brother. :slight_smile: . I have seen people making very rude comments about jihad out of their ignorance of islamic teachings.

Please re review your sources, read quran with translation as i can see you know nothing more then any fox news correspondent on jihad.

I quote for you few verses of surah an nisa- See how scholars have interpreted these verses.

It is not our duty to see if jihad is getting intended results(success or not) , our duty is to see if it is done in conformity of shariah principles or not.

Some ahadith for you to start with

So the haq today is only with the group that is doing jihad in conformity with sharia principles, it is our duty to find that haq and join them because otherwise one will be following dajjal due to the disease of wahn in their heart.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Peace Southie

To promote forcibly shaving someone who wants to keep a beard… is caring about the matter … Yes, he murdered so take his life - that is the balance of the matter - let not any emotion hinder the process - the people who are going back to meet their Lord are likely to repent and they can acquire their forgiveness from God … but the sentence needs to be given … at least do so in a humane way.

Yes … that is absolutely true … it is indeed no different and I speak out against both hypocritical people.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

You give yourself far to much credit. Not one thing in anything you posted in any negates anything i said.

First of all, who defines what is or isnt a Jihad. Who defines what is or isnt justified under Jihad. You assume far to much.

Its not our place to declare Jihad whenever we decide to, and even if it were, you dont fight this Jihad blindly. All wars, be they Jihad or otherwise require STRATEGY! If you fight without strategy, its called STUPIDITY!

Here is a scenario. If my country is invaded, and my people are under threat, I am tasked with Jiahd to defend them. Now i KNOW that my employing a particular strategy will result in loss, and will end up harming my cause. According to you narrow interpretation, I should ignore the consequences, the loss of my land, and the death of my people, and simply follow the strategy that i KNOW will not give me victory. This is stupidity personified, because by following this strategy, whatever it may be, knowing that I put my cause at harm, im doing what is counter productive. Islam teaches me to defend my land and my people, and so by following a strategy that guarantees loss, I will be failing in my Islamic duty to protect my land and my people.

You seem to not understand that even Jihad requires strategy, planning. It doent mean blindly jumping into a fight. If our intent is to die, then suicide is our best route. But if the intent of Jihad is to defend our people, our religion, our people whatever, then following your recipe of Jihad defeats the purpose. If our goal is to win, then we cannot fight a blind Jihad without considering the consequences. That is why you have no clue what your talking about, and Nadal is an idiot.

The problem with your Sharia, is interpretation. Your interpretation seems devoid of common sense. You strike me as someone who never employs logic in anything. Your Jihad only serves you, and your desire to guarantee your own place in paradise. You understanding of Jihad is self centered and has no consideration for the problems you cause those who suffer the consequences of your failed Jihad, although you will apparently be sitting pretty in heaven.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

^ i quoted some where to read abu musab as suri writing to know more about jihad and strategy. :slight_smile:

Architect of Global Jihad

see if you can find english version of this book
The Call for a Global Islamic Resistance : counterterrorismblog.org : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

These are just basic books, there are plenty more on strategy of what mujahideen want to achieve and a general road map on how they will achieve this is available online. Do some home work *ya akhi.
*
And i request you to please read my post before replying. I take some pain in writing them :slight_smile:

EDIT: Googled and found another document
https://www.box.com/s/cb635cb77b56fc3801d4

So this is no random shooting, we may agree /disagree with the approach but we should base our opinion not on hearsay but on concrete proofs.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

O

I assure you, I read your post, and they are as painful to read as they are for you to write.

Out of all this I am only trying gleam from you this simple acknowledgement, that Jihad is not simply declared by anyone, that it also involves strategy with stated goals, as you yourself admit, and that you don’t simply kill anyone you yourself to worthy of death.
Your so called scholors are irrelevant because they often contradict themselves, favoring their own ideological leaning in interpretation and thus are heavily biased.
I believe logic and reason must play a role in Islam don’t you? So try to employ some reason here. Does Jihad allow us to murder blindly without any thought to whether our actions have tangible results? And if our Jihad or the manner in which we conduct it is actually producing more misery not less, shouldn’t it be incumbent upon us to not conduct such a jihad that would compramise our goal, or to change the manner in which we conduct it?

And I remind you, this is gupshup not the university of gupshup, so I don’t have time to dedicate my life to your posts, or your references. So keep it brief, post only what is relevant as I don’t have time to read Abu musab or go through every one of your links to understand what your point is.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Peace All

There were times when Muslims had to migrate, there were times when Muslims had to accept loss, there were times when Muslims formed treaties, there were times when we Muslims defended ourselves, there were times when us Muslims waged the offensive to defend others ... each have their own contexts ... and each have a basis.

One thing that Muslims have never done - is live in oppression.

All conflicts in Islamic history, that we take our references and template models from, were organised and leadership was in place. Today we do not have such a blessing. It means that we are forced to assume jihad at a level that is within our remit.

In the absence of Ummah leadership the buck falls on the regional leadership in the absence of regional leadership the buck falls on community leadership. If a given community is attacked through its own local leaders a motion to defend themselves is permissible. Just as it would be permissible for a man of his household to use force and damage to a person who comes on to his property to defile its people or the premises itself. There are people who travel to locations looking for communities and households that are being attacked and help defend them ... but there are also a lot of wolves in sheep clothing - looking to extend a personal political motive in the guise of helping a people fight a common foe ...

The picture that is being painted by the Western media is that this fighting is somehow a network of global jihad - which is nonesense. It is rather a series of separate situations and various groups intervene either helping or claiming to help.

There are in modern wars at least 4 parties involved - it is seldom a 2 sided thing these days. A lot of the sentiments against Jihad (in the fighting - qatl context) stem from the media that have systematically trained our ears to hate it - by naming and shaming the suicide bombers and associating their acts to Jihad. In reality the majority of suicide attacks are symptoms of rage and despiration. That any human can exhibit if pushed to it.

War is also being waged in the minds of people - war has always been a psychological game as well. The media has a role to play in this ... to think otherwise is naiive. Yes, it would be good to engage in the war of opinions in this day and age ... to help gain support and understanding. Sitting where we are sitting it is hard to know what is really happening - We also know that severely inhumane acts are done by Western forces and "officially recognised" regimes which create the reactions - the reactions that are being portrayed as Jihad - whereas they're not that at all.

Jihad is about struggle - to use judgement in a situation when the body is in combat mode takes a lot of discipline ... The references are countless: Fighting in the Way of Allah (SWT) constitutes:

a) No desire to harm anyone unless necessary
b) Provision to take prisoners with dignity and to provide options for being let go
c) To favour defensive moves over offensive ones - unless it is impossible to do so

How this topic fits with the OP however I don't know - can someone please explain? I don't know enough about the judge fort case ...

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Take this pain, who knows you may learn the subject :)

[QUOTE]

And I remind you,** this is gupshup not the university of gupshup,** so I don't have time to dedicate my life to your posts, or your references. So keep it brief, post only what is relevant as I don't have time to read Abu musab or go through every one of your links to understand what your point is.
[/QUOTE]

Yes and this is why i request you to know the subject before you comment on the subject.

I have only provided you information when you required it, like you said mujahideen dont have any strategy.

Med911- Do you want to be shaheed, ever desired to be?

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

I would have learned more by way of a staple gun to my temporal lobes, then sitting here torturing myself with your inane posts.

You have posted nothing but irrelevant references, without any insight, interpretation or understanding. Anyone can post, but it takes actual intellect to debate. I didnt say "Mujahids" dont have strategy, I said Jiahd requires strategy. A Jihad, without strategic planning is not worth it, and murder under such circumstances cannot be justified since that murder will have no positive effect on the overall cause.

And worse if the outcome of you strategy-less Jihad, murdering anyone you deem your enemy actually has negative repercussions for others among the community you claim to defend, ad you knowingly continue anyway, you are actually doing Islam a disservice.

I ask only that you reply to my post, not give irrelevant references. I made my point, you have challenged it. Debate the point, and if you want to give references, then explain how the negate my point.

Everyone wants to die for a cause and leave a legacy. But i should hope its for something thats worthy. Murder is not something that I should want to define my legacy, and nor do I desire to labeled a Shaheed for such an act.

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Re: Judge: Fort Hood suspect can be forcibly shaved

Quote referances that were irrelvant. are there any questions need to be answered?

Shaheed in islamic sense or not? can you just answer my question then ayn bayn shayn

you seems to have plenty of time in hand, use it for purpose. :slight_smile:

Waisay, chiragh bibi is that your follower posting? no wonder then. :hehe: