Jinnah, Nehru, and Gandhi

None of this is cut n paste. i’m currently reading this book, “Freedom at midnight”. i’m sure some of you must have read it. It’s supposed to be quite good. i find it rather awful, but it’s negative in a sense that i want to finish it because i want to be able to understand the authors’ points of views regarding the characters they are discussing, (there are two authors). i think it’s a horrible book in terms of accuracy and objectivity, but interesting b/c it gives you the ‘other’ point of view - if useful only for purposes of criticisms. Basically, the book revolves around the events leading upto the Partition, with predominant focus placed upon Gandhi.

The book pretty much challenges all the beliefs i hold/held regarding some of the main characters. i haven’t finished the book yet, so what follows are just the impressions i have received thus far. There are some 550 pages, i’m on page 110 i think. But even at this early juncture, one can comprehend which approach they are advocating vis-a-vis the individuals. Gandhi is presented as a saint of the East, a man whose complex personality traits we - the average folks - would probably fail to appreciate, a truly selfless man for whom satyagraha and non-violence were principles he strove to live upto in his personal life. Nehru is portrayed as the pragmatist, highly intelligent, practical, non-religious, sincere but stubborn, Indian. Jinnah is portrayed as the worst of the trio - a cunniving, shrewd, rigid, frozen-personality individual who would not negotiate with Louis Mountbatten despite the latter’s fervent attempts to get Jinnah to budge on the notion of partioning India. Basically you have your dichotomies: Gandhi = the romanticized Oriental. Jinnah = the shrewd, manipulating Eastern.

The authors mention that Jinnah (this is a paraphrased quote from the book they themselves used, it’s not my words) - drank wine, ate pork, hardly ever read the Quran, avoided the mosque on Fridays, and could barely articulate himself in Urdu. Yet somehow, the authors state, he managed to galvanize millions of Muslims.

For some reason, i find that history books (at least ‘western’ ones) tend to portray Jinnah in an extremely derogatory manner - when there is mention of him in the same category as Gandhi and Nehru, Jinnah is always portrayed as the worst of the lot: shrewd, highly educated but simultaneously cunning, manipulative individual who was stubborn to his desire (i.e., partition) with no regard to the liabilities his position presented for millions of Hindus and Muslims.

i am NOT trying to paint Gandhi negatively but objectively - history books seem to gloss over Gandhi’s, errr how can i say this delicately, relations with some of his younger female companions, particularly his grand-niece, Manu. Imagine if that had been Jinnah in Gandhi’s place doing that - historians would have had a field day and would have portrayed Jinnah as the sex-obsessed Muslim fanatic. But since it’s Gandhi - you get a completely different discourse. i was amazed at the part in the book, around page 100 i think, where the authors totally try to defend what occurred between Gandhi and Manu. hmm whether or not anything “occurred” between Gandhi and Manu, Allah Alone Knows. i am arguing that while it is the authors’ right to put forth their own opinions, i am absolutely certain that had Jinnah been in Gandhi’s place, their words would have been quite the opposite. Subjectively, they based their favourable opinions based upon the individual involved, not the individual’s actions.

Anyways. One can argue that i am biased because obviously Jinnah is Muslim and i would be more attracted to his ideas and/or to defending him. i think this argument is faulty for several reasons. i am always more critical of my own country’s government and history (remember Bangladesh), and i honestly just want to understand the personalities of these historical leaders in order to understand the historical positions that each was advocating. i don’t hate Gandhi. i just want to have a better grasp of what was happening at this period of time.

Why do western history books always portray Jinnah as such a cold man devoid of any feelings ? A better read, i think, is Akbar Ahmed’s book on Pakistan and Pakistani identity…name slips me now, something like “Jinnah and the Pakistani identity” or something. At least that gives you the other side of the coin - although whether it is accurate, is also up for debate.

Nadia,
freedom at midnight is among the most prejudiced and onesided books ever written on the subject. the authors were totally biased and their views were not only pro india but very expressively anti pakistan and anti muslim.
I'm not exactly sure but i think i have read somewhere that the authors were commisioned by the govt of India to write the book; hence the bias and negative prtrayel of QuaideAzam.
some of the issues like gandhi's philosophies of sleeping nude with women etc and about Jinnah not being a devout muslim and enjoying a glass of wine now and then are infact true. the local hostorians in india and pakistan tend to make a saint out of a leader or a prominent figure forgetting that they were humans too and no human is faultless. that Quaid-e-Azam drank and didnt visit a mosque very often is true and i accept it as the truth and i know that if the Quaid had been alive today he would not have lied about it either. the greatest authority on the history of the subcontinet prof Stanley Wolpert of UCLA has written books on both QuaideAzam and Gandhi; "Jinnah of Pakistan" and "Gandhi's Passion". he is totally unbiased and free from all emotional distortion of facts and history and states all that is true. he mentions these facts about the 2 men.
however i do not think that one should change opinions about leaders on learning such facts at all. the histrorians especially those who are biased and are commissioned solely for the purpose of producing books that are onesided use these little things to smudge the image of a person. Most Indian biased authors and the authors of Freedom at Midnight portray Jinnah as a 'shrewd', 'cunning' politician. He was exceptionally intelligent, he was a very successful lawyer, he achieved what no other leader ever has:
"Few individuals significantly alter the course of history. Fewer still modify the map of the world. Hardly anyone can be credited with creating a nation-state. Mohammed Ali Jinnah did all three."
Stanley Wolpert, Jinnah of Pakistan.
so i guess there definitely is a jealousy factor involved too. according to Sharifuddin Perzada who was the Quaid's secretary in the 40's and a prominet Pakistani lawyer who has had a major contribution in the development of the constitution of Pakistan, QuaideAzam had a private legal practise of some 50000 rupees a month back in the early forties. that would be something like atleast 2.5 million rupees a month in todays value for money! he gave all that up to devote his life to the cause of Pakistan!
if Jinnah "drank wine, ate pork, hardly ever read the Quran, avoided the mosque on Fridays, and could barely articulate himself in Urdu" should we care at all...? i really dont think so. of course it does come as a dissapointment and a shock at first but he gave us our motherland and has done more for the muslims than any of the millions of devout muslim bearded maulanas of leaders we have had who dont drink wine (can we ever be sure?) or eat pork or are always in a state of Aitekaf in a mosque ever have!
the west always has a love affair with showpieces and showoffs, in case of the subcontinent, Gandhi dared to bare, Nehru was free from all boundaries of morals and ethics, Jinnah was the reserved and extremely tough undefeatable opponent and above all both hindus and thr British held grudges against Muslims and so everyone cornered Jinnah as the most evil of the lot; because he was fighting for a cause and was totally focused, did not believe in showing off and did not have an affair with the viceroy's wife! the religous leaders of the time offered quaide-e-azam the title of maulana, he rufesed. the aligarh univ offered him honoror doctorates; he refused. he could have grown a beard to stimulate muslim emotion; he didnt! and they say he was cunning and didnt budge to the viceroy's generous offers in 'favour' of muslims. Mountbatten was made viceroy in 1947 by removing Viceroy FM lord Archibald Wavell only because he was unbiased and held high regard for the muslims and their cause. The English didnt want a man like that, they needed an anti muslim, prohindu man and they found such a man in Louis Mountabatten at the 11th hour.

Haris,
i think you should write a review on "Freedom at midnight". i think almost everything you stated is accurate. i have the book with me right now and i was refreshing myself with the descriptions the authors gave of Gandhi (the "gentle prophet of the world's most extraordinary revolution movement") vs. Jinnah ("frigid, haughty and disdainful frame of mind", "aloof and reserved", giving "monosyllabic grunts" in response to Mountbatten's eloquent, British conversation). man! The one-sidedness is so frustrating. My library has Stanley Wolpert's books so i'm going to check those out today Insha'Allah.

i agree, we do like to put our leaders on a pedestal. Yes initially it is disappointing when i learned of the pork/wine/Quran, etc. But then again, i wouldn't be able to give a speech in Urdu either so who am i to judge. i think the Quaid's personality was very complex as all human beings are, and the final Judge of his character will manifestly be Allah, not me.

[quote]
the west always has a love affair with showpieces and showoffs, in case of the subcontinent, Gandhi dared to bare, Nehru was free from all boundaries of morals and ethics, Jinnah was the reserved and extremely tough undefeatable opponent and above all both hindus and thr British held grudges against Muslims and so everyone cornered Jinnah as the most evil of the lot; because he was fighting for a cause and was totally focused, did not believe in showing off and did not have an affair with the viceroy's wife!
[/quote]

You seem to know quite a bit about this issue. This is a dumb question but in one of Akbar Ahmed's books, he mentioned that Nehru and Edwina Mountbatten had had an affair. Not that this should hold any sort of interest in a mature person, and i feel stupid asking this, but is that accurate... ? feeling cheap for asking this question

i'm eager to finish the book now so i can discuss more issues with you Insha'Allah. You gave a very good assessment of the book's shortcomings, i think. History has placed Gandhi on some sort of cult-like status. Jinnah has been thoroughly demonized as the calculating, cunning Muslim. Neither of them were perfect, but surely neither of them were also the way they are portrayed as being.

Nadia,

you should definitely read Wolpert's book. In fact it should be the first book anybody reads about Jinnah.

Re: Nehru and Mrs. Mountbatten - yes it is true. If you read (I believe) "Struggle for Pakistan", the author (I forget his name) mentions how Mountbatten manipulated the Radcliffe plan in favour of India and had the proposed map changed behind the scenes multiple times by throwing tantrums and threatening to resign etc etc. The only thing I don't understand about the episode is that can any man do his wife's lover's bidding? And to do it as passionately and ferociously as Mountbatten did is even more strange.

Thank you.

geek alert i checked out three books on this issue; they're all by Stanley Wolpert: "Jinnah of Pakistan", "Nehru", and "Gandhi's Passion". Lovely way to pass those cold winter evenings in Canada for the next couple of weeks :~P

Re: Mountbatten - maybe he didn't even know that his wife and Nehru had gotten that close ? Was he aware of the situation between the two of them?

Or maybe he accepted it as an unfortunate, but necessary, way to win Nehru onto the idea of Partition... i don't know. i'll have to read Wolpert's book on Nehru before i can understand what precisely occurred.

Nadia,

Montbatten was aware of the affair between Edwina and Nehru (at least a lot of historians think so), but Englishman are really ...err... different in the way they handle the news. Read up on english ladies and thier affairs with Risaldars and Bearers when they came to spend vacations in India (Books by John Masters for example). Also read/watch "End of the affair". I don't know why it was so, but there was this urge to sweep stuff under the carpet. Maybe it was part of being an English Gentleman, these things were never acknowledged and hardly any slighted husbad/wife took any action perhaps from fear of calling too much attention to such "sordid affairs." If you think about Englishmen of yore it does seem very plausible.

thanks Nadia, for liking the analysis.
about your question, it's not stupid or cheap at all, it's one of history's greatest secrets which i believe altered the course of events in atleast some way. Mufakar and sambrillian have confirmed it already, it is very true! QuaideAzam knew of the relationship and once someone from the muslim league got hold of intimate letters written between Nehru and Edwina Mountabatten and everyone expected that the Quaid would use them as a political weapon, but they were all amazed at the way Jinnah was disgusted at those who wanted him to use them against the rivals, and refused to even read them at all! he said plainly he could not get down to such an unethical level! thats what a leader is! do watch the movie JINNAH, it has this event portrayed. infact Jinnah the movie is one of those movies one doesnnt understand right the first time, you have to watch it more than once to really understand what the movie is trying to say. dont watch it with the Gandhi movie in mind, Jinnah is produced for a diff purpose in a diff way. make sure you watch it one one of those cold canadian evenings :)
do finish the book and we can definitely discuss more on these issues. Also once you have watched the movie, we can have a good discussion on it too, that'd be very interesting; whether or not the writer, producer and director was able to achieve what he wanted to and whether the way it was made was any good or needed at all.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
Nadia,

you should definitely read Wolpert's book. In fact it should be the first book anybody reads about Jinnah.
[/QUOTE]

i agree, it's the best book.

[QUOTE]
Re: Nehru and Mrs. Mountbatten - yes it is true. If you read (I believe) "Struggle for Pakistan", the author (I forget his name) mentions how Mountbatten manipulated the Radcliffe plan in favour of India and had the proposed map changed behind the scenes multiple times by throwing tantrums and threatening to resign etc etc. The only thing I don't understand about the episode is that can any man do his wife's lover's bidding? And to do it as passionately and ferociously as Mountbatten did is even more strange.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, i wonder too, why did mountbatten act the way he did? perhaps it was for purely political reasons and he just didnt care for anything else as 'small' as his wife's sincerity to him. due to his wife he had such a good relationship with the Hindus that they offered him the position of divided India's first Governor General, which he gladly accepted! of course with this much going on for him in India from Hindus, muslims were bound to face the consequences of the havoc he and Stafford Cripps played with the boundaries; Kashmir, Hyderabad, Junagarh. Pakistan still pays the price.

Freedom at midnight is extremely well written, but very biased, it ignores key events like the cabinet mission and Nehru's stubborn refusals to accept any compromise with Jinnah. It does make a few good points, especially where it states how the Indian government tried desperately to wipe out newly independant pakistan by not proividing it with it's proper share of goods as well as financially.

The truth of the matter is Nehru wanted to be seen as an equal of Jinnahs but push comes to shove Gandhi and Jinnah were contemporaries not Nehru and Jinnah.

Nadia:

The whole of India knew about Nehru-Mountbatten affair. It was not a top secret thing at all. Without getting into cheap details, it is a well known fact that the Muslim League found some of the love letters being exchanged between the two love birds. Liaqat Ali Khan suggested that the letters be used as blackmail to keep Mountbatten in check. Jinnah, the pork eating, wine drinking, non-praying heathen that he was refused point blank. He said it was against his principles. Who would've thought that a man who didn't say Alhumdolillah every two seconds could have morals and principles? Shocking!

In the movie Jinnah, it was even suggested that Mountbatten actually encouraged the affair because he wanted to be on the good side of Nehru. And as Haris said, he was rewarded by Nehru and Congress by making him the first governer general of India.

I would be really surprised if Mr. Gandhi did have an illicit affair. It would seem all out-of-character with everything else he ever did, and really, such deviations generally don’t occur.

For example, did you know that when Mr. Gandhi was being shot in his chest by his would-be assasin, the former raised his hand in (Hindu traditional) gesture of blessing? Kind of like Jesus saying, when he was crucified, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”. Now, does Mr. Gandhi seem like person who would have an extra-marital affair?

Obviously, I have never met him, so to understand him better, we have to rely on those who did interact with him, or rely on his personal memoirs.

In the US, Canada or Europe, you can probably get your hands on Mr. Gandhi’s autobiography, “My Experiments with Truth”. As for another source, there is one chapter from someone else’s autobiography, which happens to be available online. You can find the relevant chapter here:

Haris,

Many many thanks again. Your analysis is always so interesting. i wasn't aware of the secret letters; yes, that does show good moral character. Surprising especially coming from a politician who could have used that quite brutally to his political advantage.

i finished Freedom at Midnight tonight. Just started Wolpert's "Jinnah of Pakistan".

The "Jinnah" movie you are referring to - is that the one produced by Akbar Ahmed ?

Thanks, everyone who participated in this thread and answererd my questions. It's wonderful to discuss this issue with others who share a similar interest.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
**The whole of India knew about Nehru-Mountbatten affair. It was not a top secret thing at all. Without getting into cheap details, it is a well known fact that the Muslim League found some of the love letters being exchanged between the two love birds. Liaqat Ali Khan suggested that the letters be used as blackmail to keep Mountbatten in check. Jinnah, the pork eating, wine drinking, non-praying heathen that he was refused point blank. He said it was against his principles. Who would've thought that a man who didn't say Alhumdolillah every two seconds could have morals and principles? Shocking!

In the movie Jinnah, it was even suggested that Mountbatten actually encouraged the affair because he wanted to be on the good side of Nehru. And as Haris said, he was rewarded by Nehru and Congress by making him the first governer general of India.
[/QUOTE]
**

hmmmm. Thanks, Sambrialian... Sorry, which Jinnah movie are you referring to ? Would that be available at some place like Rogers or Blockbuster ?

Rohit,

i am truly sorry, i don’t mean to offend you by saying anything negative about Gandhiji. :flower1:

i remember that part, he had his hands raised in the namaste-style.. according to the authors of Freedom at Midnight, that is still the position his hands were in after the bullets had hit him and he had fallen to the ground.

i’ve finished that book…and i think it’s forced me (again) to re-assess some of my beliefs about ALL the characters. There are two parts in particular about Gandhiji’s personality that mean a great deal to me, that i gained from reading the book:

  • his living in Calcutta and Delhi, post-Partition, to protect the Muslims in that area - even at great risk to his personal life. This was partially done because many Muslim leaders and maulanas were begging him to stay in order to act as their protection.

  • his simple life. No other politician, including Jinnah, led as materially-simple a life as Gandhi did. i find this a VERY important characteristic and i truly admire that in Gandhi. Simplicity and humility should never be divorced from authority and influence; for all the status that Gandhi possessed, it made him strive to lead a more simpler life. Personally speaking, for me, that’s pretty admirable and it was not something that i saw was reflected in other leaders of that time, both Hindus and Muslims - something that i fail to see reflected in contemporary Muslim governmental leaders as well, Muslim sheikhs being a prime example.

the most telling tribute i find for Gandhi is that those who adopt extremism in India are also forced to dislike Gandhi and everything he stood for.

it is sad, that some of the indians i meet dont like gandhi so much now. does bjp have an apathetic attitude towards gandhi (im asking because in both instances people vilifying gandhi were also bjp people)?

Nadia,

It’s OK; I was not offended. I am sorry if I sounded offended.

That’s true. In fact, the riots on the Indian side of the border stopped only when Mr. Gandhi went on a fast-unto-death. This probably led to many thousand Muslims’ lives being saved. This frustrated the fundamentalists among the Hindus, who then had Mr. Gandhi assasinated.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
it is sad, that some of the indians i meet dont like gandhi so much now.
[/QUOTE]

Some Indians believe that Freedom was won not because of non-violence and non-cooperation, but through violent resistance, e.g., assasinating English officials. That is the reason they are unimpressed by Mr. Gandhi.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *does bjp have an apathetic attitude towards gandhi (im asking because in both instances people vilifying gandhi were also bjp people)?
[/QUOTE]

I am not sure, but it is quite possible.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
**Haris
*,

Many many thanks again. Your analysis is always so interesting. i wasn't aware of the secret letters; yes, that does show good moral character. Surprising especially coming from a politician who could have used that quite brutally to his political advantage.

i finished Freedom at Midnight tonight. Just started Wolpert's "Jinnah of Pakistan".

The "Jinnah" movie you are referring to - is that the one produced by Akbar Ahmed ?

Thanks, everyone who participated in this thread and answererd my questions. It's wonderful to discuss this issue with others who share a similar interest.
[/QUOTE]

you're always most welcome Nadia.
it sure is always great to have serious discussions on such issues with people who share the interests. and yeah, the movie jinnah was produced by Akbar Ahmed. i wonder if you can find it easily in canada or us. even in pakistan it's rarely available, i wonder why. but, if you want it and have difficulty finding it let me know and i'll try finding it for you here.
how do you like stanley wolpert's work so far?

its been ages since Ive logged on gupshup but its been so invigorating mentally that i had to contribute something.

Pakistan studies is a compulsory subject in Pakistan whether ur doing ur matric or ur O levels. Up until my bachelor’s degree i wasnt really sure of the making of Pakistan other than the view presented in all school books. Muslims leaders are good and the British and Hindus were bad.

I read this amazing book, cant remember the name, that opened my eye!! I found that most Muslim religious leaders werent even sure if they wanted Pakistan in the first place. The Muslim League was hardly a representative of the common Muslim man and it too had a lot of disputes which resulted in factions.

As for the Quaid, I can only imagine how hard it must have been for him not only to convince others but also Muslims that Pakistan was the most feasible choice. Leaders such as the Quaid are born once in a lifetime. But to remain strong in the face of adversity such as failing health, opposition from all sides and poor family life, is a tough ask that very few people survive.

I think ive gone on a bit too much here. Probably over the top too. :blush:

P.s Im terrible at spelling so no offense intended if somethings not spelled right.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Rohit: *
**That's true. In fact, the riots on the Indian side of the border stopped only when Mr. Gandhi went on a fast-unto-death. This probably led to many thousand Muslims' lives being saved. This frustrated the fundamentalists among the Hindus, who then had Mr. Gandhi assasinated.
[/QUOTE]
*

You are absolutely right that this is what frustrated the fundamentalists. i think they also became impatient and angry when Gandhiji fought to have India give Pakistan that money - part of the negotiations for Partition. i forget what the precise amount was, but it was a fair bit of $$ that India had refused to give to Pakistan. So Gandhiji also used that in his platform and hence he was perceived of (by fundamentalists) as being too apologetic towards the Pakistanis. They had no sympathy for him asking them to 'forgive' the other side...especially when they were streaming from refugee camps from Pakistan, having lost everything they had.

Whenever we paint someone with a brush without understanding their genuine motivations first, we always get tragic results.