Jesus tomb found? religious implications

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Jesus tomb found? religious implications

holy helix my man, holy helix.

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Re: Jesus tomb found? religious implications

Here are two links of interest to those who are for serious discussion.

http://www.tombofjesus.com I think the website is by the (An African American convert to Islam-Ahmadiyyat from Christianity) author of the book, Saving the Savior, who goes into too much historical detail and cities so many references that it makes it more like a reference book.

The other book that talks in great detail not only about the historical references but also about what Jesus’ (as) escape from Cross would mean to Islam and Christianity, is written by Hazrat Ahmad (as) in 1896 (published in 1908). The book is Masih Hindustan Main or Jesus in India

I personally believe it’s only a matter of time before Jesus’ escape from the cross becomes a more prevalent view.

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Re: Jesus tomb found? religious implications

AJ but if the remains are in Jerusalem, then the Jesus in India theory does not hold either.

so there is going to be an impact there as well. unless the theory is that he went to India and either went back before passing away, or his remains were taken away after passing away, either way there is an impact to the current view.

Because the basis of this what if scenario is that the remains are real.

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**If Pir Sahib can give us this answer, then Your Murids will number in Millions.........:) **

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pir sahab looks for quality in mureeds and not quantity :)

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Re: Jesus tomb found? religious implications

did anyone watch the documentary on the “lost tomb of jesus” on discovery last night? It was directed by James Cameron :cb: quite dramatic! My personal opinion at the end was that the evidence is more than enough to establish that this indeed is the tomb of jesus. The tomb contained Ossuaries with a cluster of names that it would be too great of a coincidence for the same cluster to appear in a family tomb together like this. “Jesus son of Joseph”, “Mary” , “Mariamne (maybe mary magdalene)”, another for Jesus’ brothers , “Matthew”, “Simon”, and one named as son of jesus. I found much of the arguments very impressive and convincing. But the question that bothered everyone was why the film-maker did not bother to take a DNA test from all the Ossuaries to find out if they were maternally/paternally related in some way. He did perform a test on the DNA from the Mariamne/Jesus Ossuaries, establishing that the two were definitely not maternally related (meaning that they “could” be husband and wife"
after the documentary they had another show called “a critical look at the lost tomb of jesus” in which they placed the filmmaker and his associate against professors of theology, heads of some catholic church and their associates :cb: it was quite unfair in my opinion. The film-maker was basically made to look like a fool (since he was not as eloquent as the professors). However, not ONE of the religious leaders had a vehement protest against the evidence presented! Yes they all pointed out the missing links and they called his documentary simply “entertainment” but they always spoke in vague terms and no one really adressed the main issue of finding the cluster of names together in a family tomb.

A leader of a catholic church said this evidence will not shake his faith, another said this will be bad for christianity as he essentially believes in jesus’ ascension in material form to the heavens.

Essentially, if the ossuaries really are the family of Jesus, this will negate:
The belief of immaculate conception: Seems like Jesus had brothers. Unless Joseph had more wives other than Mary. On the other hand, if a DNA test would show that Jesus’ DNA matches that of Mary and not that of Joseph…it would make a strong case for the immaculate conception.
It would negate the belief that Jesus had no offspring
It would establish that Mary Magdalene was a close companion of Jesus. This could be followed by a DNA test from the three ossuaries for Jesus, Mary Magdalene and their supposed son.
It would establish that Jesus did not ascend into heaven. atleast not in material form. Actually even if people are willing to believe that this in fact is the tomb of jesus’ family, they might not believe that the bones (now re-buried) belong to Jesus.

The conclusion is that a lot more research needs to be done in order to satisfy the sceptics and be a 100% sure. This is something big. I dont understand why the Israeli Authorities have sealed the tomb.

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Re: Jesus tomb found? religious implications

*The belief of immaculate conception: Seems like Jesus had brothers. Unless Joseph had more wives other than Mary. *

its an interesting discussion christian circles. but how would jesus having siblings negate that his birth was thru immaculate conception? although what I have read in some chritian texts suggests that they believe that Mary had no other children and jesus siblings are josephs kids from another marriage.

*On the other hand, if a DNA test would show that Jesus' DNA matches that of Mary and not that of Joseph...it would make a strong case for the immaculate conception. *

but not prove it, seaking strictly scientific here.

. This is something big. I dont understand why the Israeli Authorities have sealed the tomb.

they sealed it??? did not know that.

I missed the show, hopefully they run it again

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Re: Jesus tomb found? religious implications

its an interesting discussion christian circles. but how would jesus having siblings negate that his birth was thru immaculate conception? although what I have read in some chritian texts suggests that they believe that Mary had no other children and jesus siblings are josephs kids from another marriage.

well yeah i guess if they could prove that joseph had wives other than mary then in that case things would get complicated

they sealed it??? did not know that.

yep. the tomb was discovered in 1980 and there were BONES found in them! the most ridiculous thing is that the bones were RE-BURIED (how could they not run a DNA test on them?)
The limestone boxes (ossuaries) were sent to the israeli museum...when they started curating them (it took them years and year to curate the ossuaries and recently they got to these ossuaries with jesus' family names. the film-maker heard of this and went to explore more at the tomb (which was not properly sealed and they were just starting exploring when someone from the israeli authorities came over and after that the tomb was re-sealed.

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hey thanks for the info. that is very peculiar why would u wantto seal it up again? political motives? pressure?

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doesnt Islam say ALLAH kay raaz ALLAH he janay and we have no authority to dig stuff that he doesnt want us to know, if he did then it might have been stated in the quran.

just had a random thought but what if the people who complied the quran after prophet Mohammad's (S.A.W) death made some mistake or hid this or lost it hence we didnt know the whole truth about this...

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assalaamalekum!

I think may be HE wanted us to dig stuff, that is why we are able to. Just my opinion

Facebook..
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Re: Jesus tomb found? religious implications

I didn't see the actual documentry, but I did see a discussion of it on CNN. One panalest raised the point that pious Christians would readily name their offsprings after Jesus, Mary, Matthew and so on...to such an extent that having one family with those names is not at all shocking.

I kind of buy that...even within the early history of Islam, it wouldn't be uncommon to find a Muhammad married to an Ayesha...where Muhammad had a cousin named Ali, who was married to a Fatima. Come to think of it...I may be able to ciite examples in my own family :)

Of course, the problem here is that Semetic names are pretty verbose. It would be Muhammad bin etc. to so many generations. I'm curious, didn't the jews have a similar name tradition? Was Mary's full name there? Another thing I don't know is how many generations of names did semetic names aggregate...was it just up to the father?

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Re: Jesus tomb found? religious implications

We're talking about a *miracle *birth...and chromosomes? In the same breath? What is it about miracle that makes one suppose that everything else would be business as usual?

So...never mind the biologists. how would a believing metaphysicist postulate a solution to this problem? Easy...God, being God...would take an arbitrary (pious) human male out of the space-time continuum and use him for the source of Christ's genes. Having now never existed, Jesus' chromosome source would be out of the human gene pool, and so we would see Jesus as having unique chromosomes that can only be attributed to him. And of course, the time line would naturally readjust (as per God's will of course) to the removal of said chromosome source.

Problem solved.

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but that would then mean that genetically jesus would be unique? because if he is not then that theory does not work. It would be even more problematic if the genes were very similar to people in that region of that time.

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the likelihood of the exact same names with exact same relationships is a little tough, thoe names..no other names..same relationships.

and also that sort of reverence happens later..not in the same time so you are talking atleats one or two generations later, unless people changed their names right then.

I mean in muslim history, are we aware of any people with the names and relationships you have mentioned, a Muhammad son of abdullah and amina, married to a khadija, with a daughter named fatima. especially in early history. if someone had that name combo 2 centiries later than by carbon dating u would know that these are people from a different era.

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Nope, they would match the missing gene source, and his ancestors. :)

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But not at all impossible. Some nerdy statistician already worked out the probability to be like 1 in 600...that's not that bad....hardly impossible...

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is it true , someone at my school was mentioning that

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You know at this point its really of secondary importance as to whether the tomb really is of Jesus and his family. What is even more disappointing and alarming is the way this issue is being treated. The journalist and his team found the tomb intriguing, did some research and made a documentary on it. The rest of the "scholarly" world is making every effort it seems to dismiss it as ridiculous. Why would you not want to even run more DNA tests and do more research even if the stats were even lower? Wouldnt you want to be 100% sure? And lastly if we started subjecting the bible and its stories to the same "scientific standard" then how much of it will actually hold up? immaculate conception? Ressurrection? Being Son of God? Moses Parting the Ocean etc etc.
anyways judging from the reaction my main view point remains the same, even if it were a 100% proven through scientific methods that the tomb does belong to Jesus, it would not shake the beliefs of christians.

An even better documentary by the same filmmaker Simcha Jacobovichi is called "The Exodus Decoded" in which he actually scientifically explained the event of Moses Parting the sea and the 10 plagues that hit egypt.

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Re: Jesus tomb found? religious implications

I have seen several documentaries in my lifetime due to my interest in archeology and egyptology and they are skewed. Do your research before believing what they suggest.

If you believed most documentaries held on the discovery channel, history channel, or TLC and the like, the religions that you would be most inclined to are two, which I wont name here. Think about that for a moment.

And no, I dont buy that the person in the tomb is Isa(AS). Never will.

Consider the theory of evolution, have most people given up their faith due to it? I dont believe so.