[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
There are so many contradictions in quranic teachings. Somewhere jesus is dead and somewhere he may be alive. I am showing in other threads that quran is un-scientific and illogical also.
[/quote]
some of your post is tangential to the topic of this thread.. for now kindly provide proof for the following claim:
"somewhere jesus is dead. somewhere he may be alive"
Example please?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
they, the people of the Book, believed he died....
jews believed they killed Jesus (as)....
christians believed he died on the cross to save them....
surely Jesus (as) will testify against these people....
whats so strange about it????
they were on a wrong belief....
he did not die....
:)
[/QUOTE]
Armughal,
I thought the "people of the book" is how Muslims referred to the Jews and Christians in olden times?
Christians believe that Jesus suffered, died, was buried, then ressurected by god for the forgiveness of sin. Not for the sake of Christians, but for all mankind.
At the time of Jesus there were no christians nor were there muslims.
If Qu'ran was written sometime around 800 C.E. from what did Mohammad and todays Muslim scholars glean information about the First Century? And Jesus?
^
Quran was **not **written....
it was sent down by Allah, the One True God....
and it is He who informed the muslims, through His Final Word, about Jesus (as)....
and it is the Quran that mentions that Jesus (as) was raised up alive....
i wonder why ppl come up with verses here and there to prove things when verses directly converned with Jesus (as), mentioning him by name, say that he was raised up alive....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
i wonder why ppl come up with verses here and there to prove things when verses directly converned with Jesus (as), mentioning him by name, say that he was raised up alive....
[/QUOTE]
when sufficient evidence to the contrary exists within Qur'an that states that no prophet before Prophet Muhammad was immortal then it's prudent to interpret 'raising to Allah' as an elevation of status rather than some supernatural flight.. afterall Allah is everywhere.. u cannot confine the interpretation.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
when sufficient evidence to the contrary exists within Qur'an that states that no prophet before Prophet Muhammad was immortal then it's prudent to interpret 'raising to Allah' as an elevation of status rather than some supernatural flight.. afterall Allah is everywhere.. u cannot confine the interpretation.
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'raised him unto Himself' - What sense does that make? Christians would agree with you though...
so whats all that story about Allah’s ‘arsh’ (i.e. throne) that Quran speaks of???
is that all made up???
or do u take that as a metaphor???
what do u think sounds more ‘true’ and more ‘realistic’…
assuming Allah is present everywhere or that there is a physical existence of a ‘throne’ which indicates where Allah wud be physically present (if He, in all His Glory, is bound to a physical existence)…
or what wud u say is more abstract…
Allah is everywhere…
or Allah is ‘established’ on a throne and that throne exists somewhere…
think about it…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
some of your post is tangential to the topic of this thread.. for now kindly provide proof for the following claim:
"somewhere jesus is dead. somewhere he may be alive"
Example please?
[/QUOTE]
"somewhere jesus is dead." You and your co-partners are giving examples from quran.
"somewhere he may be alive." Your opposite group is quoting examples from same quran.
My emphasis on the words "may be" is because of the fact that your holy book contains ambigious wordings. Meanings "can be" or "cannot be" taken as being alive.
If meanings "can be" taken as being alive, then it is really contradictory to those verses whose straitforward meanings suggest the death of Jesus.
If meanings "cannot be" taken as being alive, then majority muslims are the followers of wrong meanings. They are then being deceived by the ambigious wordings of the holy book. Even their god do not help them in understanding the true meanings by making a clarification. Perhaps he cannot even clarify the situation. god shall not clarify the situation but still shall punish majority muslims for not following the true meanings....???? Shall it not be un-justified for god in doing so..??? If god shall not punish them on this issue, then what is the need in your opinion, to "prove" the "true" meanings...??? because it dose not matter...god shall not punish them on this issue.
If it is not decidable that which meaning i.e. "can be alive" or "cannot be alive" is really true, then it is the proof that holy book is ambigious because its ambigious wording are not decidable for the true meanings.
And you both groups, despite having the claim that you ppl are following the same quran, are actually the followers of two different idealogies. But both of you claim that your respective idealogy has been derived from same (single) quran.
It means that your quran contains two contradictory and opposite idealogies.
You cannot decide on this issue because your holy book is controvertial on this issue. Your god is also unable to clarify this controvertial situation. Shall god clarify this situiation before your judgment day...???
If god himself shall clarify the situation before the judgment day then why u ppl are wasting your energies in this useless debate. Just wait the direct clarification from god.
If god himself not clarify this ambiguity which is a source of conflict between two groups of followers, then it would not be justified for your god to punish that group whose interpretation is incorrect. Because god himself has not clarified the real situation. So justified conclusion is that your god shall not punish the wrong group. So what is the need of this useless debate then...???
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
^
Quran was **not **written....
it was sent down by Allah, the One True God....
and it is He who informed the muslims, through His Final Word, about Jesus (as)....
and it is the Quran that mentions that Jesus (as) was raised up alive....
i wonder why ppl come up with verses here and there to prove things when verses directly converned with Jesus (as), mentioning him by name, say that he was raised up alive....
[/QUOTE]
Who told you that quran was not written...??? Some human must have told it to you.
onething for sure, mullahs made islam a place of funny stories and then claim to know everything, May Allah :swt: save Islam from such ppl. Ameen
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *
Who told you that quran was not written...??? Some human must have told it to you.
[/QUOTE]
and....????
whats wrong with being told by a human????
Nobody has brought up the authentic Ahadis about the discussion of Hajrat Esa (PBUH), a authentic Hadis is the explaination of Quran. I do not have source but I read that there is another Prophet was taken alive without death. Please correct me if I am wrong.
^wrong....
thats a biblical story about Ilyas (as)....
but thats not the view supported in Islam....
although some muslim writers have metnioned the same myth quoted from biblical sources....
Quote from PurelyAvgGirl:
Armughal,
I thought the "people of the book" is how Muslims referred to the Jews and Christians in olden times?
Christians believe that Jesus suffered, died, was buried, then ressurected by god for the forgiveness of sin. Not for the sake of Christians, but for all mankind.
At the time of Jesus there were no christians nor were there muslims.
If Qu'ran was written sometime around 800 C.E. from what did Mohammad and todays Muslim scholars glean information about the First Century? And Jesus?
All the real follower of Prophets(AS) are Muslims. All the Prophets(AS) are Muslims. There are Muslims called Havarian at time of Hajrat Esa(AS) and it is mentioned in Quran.
yes it did..included teche teche in thier stories… 
may ALLAH save us from such ppl
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
yes it did..included teche teche in thier stories...... :)
may ALLAH save us from such ppl
[/QUOTE]
bao bao, dont talk about anything, about which u have no idea and u will NEVER understand this, cuz its toooo high for u ;)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
and....????
whats wrong with being told by a human????
[/QUOTE]
So you accept that you have been told by an human.
And what is wrong...???
You yourself can think over it. But I know you will not openly accept the wrongness.
ofcourse i've been told by humans....
animals r not intelligent enuff to be telling me....
and i am no prophet to be told by angels....
all humans have been taught by humans, except prophets who were told by angels and the angels were told by Allah....
no i can never accept the wrongness of the likes of u who think they were born out of monkies and apes....
i take pride in being created as a human and being from the human race, the intelligent uhman race....
but intelligence of those who think r descendants of monkies is really questionable....
I wonder what will happen when ur isa will come down, and ppl will treat him the same way u r doin, and making fun of him, u flew how?
^
there is a difference between a prophet and a guy like mirza ghulam ahmad....
what ghulam ahmad got (rejection) is same as what his predecessors (musailma kazaab, talaiha etc etc) got....
and for sure u have to explain how he managed to do that slam dunk of his head in the toilet....
must have required extra-human ability to do that right... ;)
armughal i dont even want to use ur weapons against u, cuz then I will be a Mullah too, and I hate Mullahs.
See the topic and then talk about it? about the death of Hz Masih Maood :as: I already answred, but what can I do, when u guyz dont get this in ur brain, and i know u will never get this.
so stick to the topic, IF U CAN THIS