Jesus is dead- from the Qu'ran

Assalamo Alaikum,
It is a widely held belief that Isa (as) has ascended to heaven. Below, I will prove from the Qu’ran and Qu’ran alone that he has died and that he shall not return.

My argument is based on a single verse, which is held at the core by Muslim Scholars to prove that Isa has been raised to heaven. In that verse, there is a single word, Waffa which translators have interpretted to mean anything but death

Below are 18 instances in the Qu’ran where the word Wa’fa is used to mean death. However, the translation that I give can be could be from an Ahmadi scholar, which you would not accept. To remove all doubts form your mind, I am giving it from a non-ahmadi translation of the Qu’ran.

Now, having shown you in 17 cases that the word “waffa” has been used to mean the word death, I want to present to you the verse which relates “the case” of Isa (as). It is Surah Al-Imran, verse 54.

Now, I will show you have non-Ahmadi translators have translated this:

Where in the above translations do you see the word to die, as I showed above “Waffa,” has been consistenly used by these scholars in other parts of the Qu’ran to mean the word die?

Wasalam,
Hasee

this has been discussed a million times here. Ahmedi ideas to Ahmedis! The whole Muslim world agrees that Jesus did not die and was taken to heaven and will return again.

Then what about this verse:

**

“So peace is on the day I was born, the day I die and the day I shall be resurrected to life again.” 19/33.

**

‘Ressurected to life again’…Did any other Prophet of Allah :swt: mention anyplace being ‘resurrected to life again’?

Or this one:

**

4:157 That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

**

No other Prophets (May Allah’s peace and blessings be upon them) have been mentioned as being ‘raised’ or ‘ascended’ or being replaced by one who looked like him, it is only Hazrat Isa :as: who has been ‘ascended’ unto Allah :swt:…All the Prophets (May Allah’s peace and blessings be upon them) died, except Hazrat Isa :as: who was ‘ascended’, ‘raised’, ‘gathered’, ‘taken’ or ‘recalled’…Death is not mentioned for the Holy Prophet Isa :as:…

So you can either assume him ‘dead’ as per your prophet Mirza Sahib or you can believe in Allah :swt:, who is capable of everything, as having taken him alive unto Himself, to be resurrected as per the Promise…

Quran 19:15
*So Peace on him the day he was born the day that he dies and the day that he will be raised up to life (again)! *

these r used for Yahya (as) so this is a weak point from u…
the resurrection here is meant for the day of judgement…

nonetheless, ahmadis view of jesus dying in kashmir is still a bizzare one…

:salam:

No brother, I am quoting from Surah 19 Ayah 33, and these verses are about Hazrat Isa :as:…

Here is more from the same Surah:

**

19:27 Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.

19:28 O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.

19:29 Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy ?

19:30 He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,

19:31 And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,

19:32 And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.

19:33 Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

19:34 Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

19:35 It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.

**

see the use of the word waffahu in 24:39....

even the ahmadi translators have not tranlated it to death here....

read my post again…
ur point of “being raised alive” is not meant to be the re-coming of Jesus (as)…
the exact same words used for Jesus (as) in verse 33 r used for Yahya (as) in verse 15…

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *

read my post again....
ur point of "being raised alive" is not meant to be the re-coming of Jesus (as)....
the exact same words used for Jesus (as) in verse 33 r used for Yahya (as) in verse 15....
[/QUOTE]

Still there is a difference:

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19:15 Peace on him the day he was born, and the day he dieth and the day he shall be raised alive!

19:33 Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

**

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *

Still there is a difference:

**

19:15 Peace on him the day he was born, and the day he dieth and the day he shall be raised alive!

19:33 Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

**
[/QUOTE]

so there is Jesus (as) claiming himself that he will be raised alive again (will come back to this earth again as u suggest the verse means)....

and there is Yahya (as) for whom Allah Himself is saying that he will be raised alive again (u suggest he's coming back too????)....

just trying to tell u that the evidence u r bringing forward is no evidence at all....

Mughal, it’s quite relevant to what I meant by posting the 19:33 Ayah:

Either way, it doesn’t really matter whether he was put on the cross or not. The more important point is that Jesus never died according to Islam. There is a similar Verse to 19:33 in the Noble Quran that was mentioned to another Messenger of GOD: “So peace on him [Yahya, or John the Baptist] the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life! (The Noble Quran, 19:15)” This Noble Verse (19:15) is similar to 19:33, where it does not at all state that any Messenger of GOD was crucified or will die twice!. The reason why no Messenger of GOD will ever die twice is because Allah Almighty said clearly in His Noble Book that every soul He creates (this includes all of His Messengers and Prophets even Jesus) shall taste death once; ** “Nor will they [all humans who end up in heaven] there taste death, except the first death; and He will preserve them from the penalty of the blazing fire. (The Noble Quran, 44:56)” **

I see your point and objection, brother but let’s continue… The Quran (in the bolded passage) tells us that no entity shall taste death twice, so going by the Quran we have:

**
“That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): ‘We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.’ But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them. (The Noble Quran, 4:156-159)” **

He was not killed but was made to appear that way and he was ‘raised’…If he was raised, does the Quran mention anyplace where he returned? It doesn’t, hence we can conclude that Hazrat Isa :as: is very much alive with Allah :swt: since according to the bolded statement, no one shall taste death twice and that includes Messengers of Allah :swt:…

Interestingly enough, Mirza Sahib initially believed the that the Holy Prophet Isa :as: will actually return:

Here are his own claims:

Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (1839-1908) of Qadiyan, in his early life believed in the reappearance of I`sa that is why we find in his early writings, references, which support this belief and support it.

In Barahin-I-Ahmadiya, commenting on the following Quranic verse:

‘He is who has sent his messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that he may make it superior to all religions, and Allah is all sufficient. (AL-FATH 48/28)
Mirza says, “This verse at this stage gives us an indication of the advent of Jesus in his full glory. In other words if the people are not going to accept the soft-natured, gracious and righteous approach and they reject that the truth has become manifest through arguments, clear proofs and clear verses, then, (they should know) that truth will dawn when God will make use of harshness, heavy handedness and strength against the evil doers and Jesus will descend upon this earth in all his all conquering magnificence.” (Barahin-I-Ahmadiyyah, Vol. 1. P601)
He also admitted that the predictions of I`sa’s Second Coming were of a first degree and order, which everyone had admitted unanimously.

He says, “The manner in which the predictions have been written in the Sihah (the most authentic collection of the Hadith) no prediction is proven to be equal to it. It enjoys the highest status of tawatur. The Gospel also endorses it.” (Izalah-I-Awham. Vol. 2 P400)

In a later stage of his career Mirza declared to be the promised Messiah and was therefore confronted with the need to present proof in order to validate his claim. He therefore resorted to first, denying the miraculous Second Coming of Isa (Jesus) by innovating the unknown history of Isa (Jesus) fleeing to Kashmir in order to escape the punishment of crucifixion, where he lived for many years, died there and was buried there.

We have already cleared 4:157 that it doest not mean Jesus didn't die at all. It just suggests that those who were after Jesus to kill him by crucifiction did not succeed. Where does it imply that he just 'flew off' somewhere and is in hibernation?

PA dont always stop at 4:157, read furher on....

Quran 4:158
*But Allah raised him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. *

now how he was raised (by angels, by birds, by transforming him into superman, by giving him an aeroplane ticket, by providing him with Apollo 11 or any other thing) is left to ur imagination....

Where did we clear it, brother? I must have missed it…

Where does it say he is not with Allah :swt:? What do you assume by ‘raise’? Did he actually come back to earth? If he did, did he abandon his Prophethood and stopped teaching and preaching after he was saved from the cross?

Answers in detail would be appreciated PA…

Firstly, I agree in entirity with armughal about the "being raised," issue. It is an article of faith that all will one day rise to answer for their deeds and in this case, Jesus speaks of the same day of judgement.

Regarding waffahu in chapter 24:39, it is not translated as death as fawaffahoo is the word used in the conect and not waffa, which is a completely different word.

There has been little other attempt to refute that Isa has not died, apart from this one single line. Other points have been talked about. One of them is the "raising of Isa" (as) for which the arabic verse often quoted is "rafaa" which in my first post is translated as "raising to myself. However, let me show you other translations of the same verse.

From Islamicity:
**Tilka alrrusulu faddalna baAAdahum AAala baAAdin minhum man kallama Allahu warafaAAa baAAdahum darajatin waatayna AAeesa ibna maryama albayyinati waayyadnahu biroohi alqudusi walaw shaa Allahu ma iqtatala allatheena min baAAdihim min baAAdi ma jaathumu albayyinatu walakini ikhtalafoo faminhum man amana waminhum man kafara walaw shaa Allahu ma iqtataloo walakinna Allaha yafAAalu ma yureedu

2:253 Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan. **

Here, it is talked about as raising of status, just as the status of Isa (as) was raised.

**Wahuwa allathee jaAAalakum khalaifa alardi warafaAAa[/y] baAAdakum fawqa baAAdin darajatin liyabluwakum fee ma atakum inna rabbaka sareeAAu alAAiqabi wainnahu laghafoorun raheemun

6:165 It is He Who hath made you (His) agents, inheritors of the earth: He hath raised you in ranks, some above others: that He may try you in the gifts He hath given you: for thy Lord is quick in punishment: yet He is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. **
Here, it is clearly shown, that being raised is in the sense of being raised in rank.

**Walaw shina larafaAAnahu biha walakinnahu akhlada ila alardi waittabaAAa hawahu famathaluhu kamathali alkalbi in tahmil AAalayhi yalhath aw tatrukhu yalhath thalika mathalu alqawmi allatheena kaththaboo biayatina faoqsusi alqasasa laAAallahum yatafakkaroona

7:176 If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect. **
Again, this is raising in status.
**WarafaAAa abawayhi AAala alAAarshi wakharroo lahu sujjadan waqala ya abati hatha taweelu ruyaya min qablu qad jaAAalaha rabbee haqqan waqad ahsana bee ith akhrajanee mina alssijni wajaa bikum mina albadwi min baAAdi an nazagha alshshaytanu baynee wabayna ikhwatee inna rabbee lateefun lima yashao innahu huwa alAAaleemu alhakeemu

12:100 And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said: "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom. **
Needs no explanation.
**WarafaAAna laka thikraka

94:4 And raised high the esteem (in which) thou (art held)? **
All other instances in this are relating to raising the heavens to their position, which are fixed.
Wasalam,
Hasee

It’s in Furqan’s Jesus thread..

where does it say he is there alive? ALL prophets died and went to Allah.. so did Jesus.. where do u find an exception in Allah’s rule? Doesn’t He say Jesus is like other prophets who passed away.. Isn’t the likeness of Jesus referred to as being of Adam? didn’t Adam die?

thankfully i don’t have to assume.. only read and understand the Qur’an.. “rafahu” has been explained by the poster above in detai.. i need not reinvent the wheel here. Try and find various occurances of “rafaaa”.. like:

[19:56] And mention Idris in the Book; surely he was a truthful man, a prophet,

[19:57] And rafanahu high in Heaven

PakistaniAbroad: Stop the press!! we have another prophet who was “raised alive”!!! :rolleyes:

oh also remember this No Human body can go up in the sky bodily. Or come down bodily.

If it was possible then Holy Prophet would have decended up to show the Quraish e Makkah as to show them Merical. When they asked him to do so he denied by saying im just a BASHER RASOOL and Allah doesnt allow this to happen.

sue me if anywhere in this verse the word HEAVEN is used…
the word used here is “makaanan aliya”…
how do u translate this to HEAVEN???

raised him to a high rank…

but for Jesus (as) it is said “Allah raised him toward himself”…

dont put in false translation to meet ur own views… :rolleyes:

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mehr00: *
oh also remember this No Human body can go up in the sky bodily. Or come down bodily.

If it was possible then Holy Prophet would have decended up to show the Quraish e Makkah as to show them Merical. When they asked him to do so he denied by saying im just a BASHER RASOOL and Allah doesnt allow this to happen.
[/QUOTE]

and how possible is it for a human to be born without a father????

what happened with Jesus (as) was by Allah's Will....
and it was Allah's Will that took Muhammad (saw) in physical state to the heavens....
He does what He Wills....

^^ Mughal, :mash:, your Arabic is an asset to any discussion…

So Allah :swt: ‘raised’ or ‘elevated’ Hazrat Isa :as: to a position ‘unto Himself’…Wah…What does that mean according to PA’s understanding? It means :nauzubillah:, that Isa :as: was raised to the status of Allah :swt:…Great…

Also remember, that no virgin can give birth, no man can be brought back to life, Noah :as:'s flood is impossible, the sea cannot be parted except by the will of Allah :swt:…