"Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

A symposium entitled “Jesus in India: An Account of Jesus’ Escape From Death on the Cross” will be held at Harvard Divinity School, Massachusetts.

**Harvard Divinity School
Andover Hall: Sperry Room
45 Francis Ave., Cambridge, MA 02138

Saturday, April 12, 2003
2 PM – 5 PM **

A Question and Answer Session will follow the speeches.
Free to the public.
Refreshments will be served.

List of speakers:
Jesus’ Survival From Crucifixion: Biblical Evidence
Imam Azhar Haneef, Philadelphia

Jesus’ Survival From Crucifixion: Quranic Evidence
Imam Daud Hanif, New York

Jesus’ Survival From Crucifixion: Scientific Evidence
Dr. Kaleem Malik, M.D., Chicago

Ahmadis in India believe Jesus lived in India (in Kashmir) and died there.

they sure will get a lot of criticism :D

Last time when the symposium was held, close to 300 people showed up. Majority of them were college students at Harvard Divinity. Due to the enormous success of the event, the Boston Chapter of Ahmadiyya Jama'at decided to have another one this fall.

Here is the info. for those who are interested and in the area.

Imam Bilal Salaam is from Baltimore, he was a Christian Minister before embracing Islam and his talk is suppose to be the most interesting.

The Last Israelite Prophet

Saturday, October 11, 2003
2 PM – 5 PM
Harvard Divinity School
Andover Hall: Sperry Room
45 Francis Avenue, Cambridge, MA 02138

*The Mission of Jesus: *
Biblical and Quranic Perspectives
Imam Daud Hanif - Queens, New York

*Interpreting the Teachings of Jesus: *
From Judaism to Pauline Christianity
Imam Mukhtar A. Cheema - Silver Spring, Maryland

*The Teachings of Jesus Reexamined: *
Reflections of a Former Christian Minister
Imam Bilal Salaam - Baltimore, Maryland

A Question and Answer Session will follow the speeches.
Free admission! Open to the public! Refreshments will be served!

Re: “Jesus in India” a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

When Jesus came to India!

Soumitra Chatterjee and Aparna Sen on the sets of The Unknown Story of the Messiah. Picture by Aranya Sen
Did Jesus Christ come to India and die in Kashmir? No way, most would say. But a ‘yes’ is now being heard from a not so insignificant section. On Wednesday afternoon, the answer in the affirmative resonated through NT-1 where archaeologist Soumitra Chatterjee and novelist Aparna Sen discussed Jesus’s life in India, for a documentary film.

Subhrajit Mitra’s The Unknown Story of the Messiah lives off the popular alternative theory that Jesus had travelled to India after crucifixion, along with Mother Mary, studied Hinduism and Buddhism, and died in Kashmir where he was entombed.

The plan is to make a “docu-feature” of around 100 minutes in the fiction format — “to avoid boredom” — and recreating this intriguing chapter through conversations between Soumitra and Aparna. “I knew the theory that Jesus had survived crucifixion and come to India and it’s very interesting. Though it is just a theory and not the gospel truth, this documentary may lead to the truth and I want to know the truth,” says Aparna, a novelist researching Jesus.

“It’s a popular theory and has been around for a long time. I had heard about it but didn’t know the details that are there in the script (by Subhrajit). It is somewhat controversial but there are several stories surrounding this theory. This documentary is a depiction of all these myths,” says Soumitra, an archaeologist and an authority on the topic.

An empanelled scriptwriter-director for National Geographic and Discovery Channel, Subhrajit has been largely influenced by German scholar Holgar Kersten’s best-sellers, Jesus Lived in India and The Jesus Conspiracy. Kersten dwells on Jesus’s life beyond Central Asia. The India angle is currently gaining ground among experts, though Russian scholar Nicolas Notovich was the first to suggest this, in his book The Unknown Life of Jesus Christ.

“My docu-feature is an assimilation of all these myths and stories,” says Subhrajit, aware that his work will kick up a controversy. “There is so much supporting evidence in favour of this theory in the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures and the courtroom records of Indian kings. There are references in the Quran too. But no scientific work has been done on this as yet… .”

Subhrajit, who moved to documentary film-making after working as a production assistant to Shyam Benegal, has sourced references from the Bhavishya Mahapurana, which records an encounter between King Shalivahana and Jesus near Srinagar, long after crucifixion. This would be enacted by Kushal Chakraborty and Paran Bandyopadhyay.

Faculty members of Islamic Studies and Sanskrit literature of Calcutta University, and of the pharmacology department, Jadavpur University, an ex-director of Buddhist Studies, Benares Hindu University, a Maharaj from Ramakrishna Mission and a forensic expert will provide glimpses of the theory.

The crew has already shot footage in Kashmir, Kerala, Ladakh, Varanasi and Puri (“where Jesus supposedly studied Hinduism for six years”). “We will prepare the film and submit it to National Geographic or Discovery Channel,” says Subhrajit. Indranil Mukherjee is behind the camera, while Arghyakamal Mitra supervises the editing.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050922/asp/calcutta/story_5267480.asp

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

Are these people holding this symposium all "Marzai" "Qadiyani" or "Ahmadi"

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

Ahmadjee...Ask these questions...

Why did Jesus stop giving Dawah once he reached Kashmir?

And why is there no historical evidence of his teachings anywhere in India?

Were there any followers of his in Kashmir and if there were, who were they?

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

Why did Jesus stop giving Dawah once he reached Kashmir?
He didn't stop.

And why is there no historical evidence of his teachings anywhere in India?
There are. Google it, Ahmadis are no longer the only people who hold 'jesus in India' belief.

Were there any followers of his in Kashmir and if there were, who were they?
With time they converted to other religions and migrated as well. Just recently rabbi from Israel have been courting people as their own and giving them an option to migrate to Israel from all over India, including Kashmir.

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

^ rabbis still dont consider Jesus as a prophet and u expect us to believe that they r counting indians as their own people and that too when they believe that they killed Jesus....

why do ppl make up such baseless stories????

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

What's baseless is a dead prophet coming back to earth...that's baseless. Prophets are humans. They live and die like humans. Any other explanation is baseless.

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

^^

That would mean they would also need a father to be conceived...

Where is Jesus' father?

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

Lajo, science has proven more than one phenomenon where the female mammal carry both male and female organs. Read up on Hermaphroditism, according to this the same female can go on to conceive normally.

Arguing that because Jesus (as) was born without a father and thus his inhuman like birth can make it inhuman like resurrection in the stretches of heavens, makes you fall right in the trap of the those who believe in Jesus (as) to be much more than just a prophet or human, i.e. the Son of God.

Anyway, there are a number of groups who try to explain Jesus (as) teachings and a man like him appearing in northern India/Kashmir. I have read about one group that believes Jesus (as) was inhuman like (similar argument as yours about his birth) and so was present at more than one place at a single time. He would preach to the people in Jerusalem one day and then come to north America the first part of night and then to India at other nights. Yeah, you thought your raising up into the heaven belief was a miracle, try wrapping your head around this.

Re: “Jesus in India” a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

Thought I’d share portions of The Muslims’ beliefs concerning the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (from Islamqa.com):

We believe that ‘Eesa was born from the Virgin Maryam with no father, and that is not impossible for Allaah Who, when He wills a thing, says “Be!” and it is.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, the likeness of ‘Eesa (Jesus) before Allaah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!’ — and he was”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:59]

“(Remember) when the angels said: ‘O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allaah gives you the glad tidings of a Word ‘Be!’ — and he was! i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allaah.”

He will speak to the people, in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous.’

She said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.’ He said: ‘So (it will be) for Allaah creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: “Be!” and it is’”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:45-47]

We believe that he did not die and his enemies the Jews did not kill him, rather Allaah saved him from them and raised him up to heaven alive.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And because of their (Jews) disbelief and uttering against Maryam (Mary) a grave false charge (that she has committed illegal sexual intercourse);
And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not *:
But Allaah raised him ‘Eesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allaah is Ever All‑Powerful, All‑Wise”
[al-Nisa’ 4:156-158]

We believe that he will come back down at the end of time, and will disprove the claim of his enemies the Jews that they killed him, and will disprove the claim of the Christians that he is God or the son of God, and he will not accept anything from them but Islam.

Al-Bukhaari (2222) and Muslim (155) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “By the One in Whose hand is my soul, soon the son of Maryam will descend among you [according to another report: the Hour will not begin until the son of Maryam descends among you] as a just judge. He will break the cross, kill the pigs and abolish the jizyah, and money will become abundant until no one will accept it.”

“Soon” means it will inevitably happen quickly.
“will descend among you” means among this ummah.
“A just judge” means that he will come down and rule according to this sharee’ah, and that this sharee’ah will remain and not be abrogated, rather ‘Eesa will be one of the rulers of this ummah.
“He will break the cross and kill the pigs” means he will declare as false the religion of the Christians by breaking the cross in a real sense and proving false the Christians’ claims and veneration of the cross.
“and he will abolish the jizyah”:
al-Nawawi said:
The correct view concerning this is that he will not accept it, and he will not accept anything from the kaafirs but Islam. If any of them offer the jizyah that will not make him stop fighting them. Rather he will not accept anything but Islam or death. This is the view of Imam Abu Sulaymaan al-Khattaabi and other scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them).
End quote.

“Money will become abundant” – the reason for this abundance will be the descent of blessings and the spread of goodness because of justice and the absence of oppression or wrongdoing. At that time the earth will bring forth its treasures, and desire to keep money will decrease because they will know that that Hour is at hand.

Then he will die and the Muslims will offer the funeral prayer for him and bury him.
Ahmad (9349) narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I am the closest of people to ‘Eesa ibn Maryam because there was no Prophet between him and me…” Then he mentioned his descent at the end of time. Then he said: “And he will remain for as long as Allaah wills he should remain, then he will die and the Muslims will offer the funeral prayer for him and bury him.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah (2182).

We believe that he will disavow himself on the Day of Resurrection of the claims that he was a god.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And (remember) when Allaah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): 'O ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allaah?’ He will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner‑self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All‑Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen).
Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allaah) did command me to say: Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things’”
[al-Maa’idah 5:116-117]

“ ‘Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allaah) did command me to say: Worship Allaah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things’”
[al-Maa’idah 5:116-117]

This is what the Muslims believe about the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace be upon him).

Al-Bukhaari (3435) and Muslim (28) narrated from ‘Ubaadah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever bears witness that there is no god but Allaah alone, with no partner or associate, and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger, and that ‘Eesa is His slave and Messenger, a word which Allaah bestowed upon Maryam and a spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is real, and Hell is real, Allaah will admit him through whichever of the eight gates of Paradise he wishes.”*

Re: “Jesus in India” a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

Won’t be a bad idea to quote a BBC documentary on this subject. This is also in the GS Video section

http://www.real-islam.org/audio/jesuscombined.ram

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

.

Re: “Jesus in India” a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

:mash:

And this is the state of confusion that Ahmadis find themselves in today…

That Mary was actually a hermaphrodite :naooz: and hence had Jesus through some genetic malfunction and not through the Word of God (Kun)…

Anything to make the argument logical, eh Ahmadjee? No way God can create a fatherless child…Gene splicing sounds more logical and explainable then telling someone Allah :swt: can create anything out of nothing…

So what are you saying by your first paragraph? God didn’t or couldn’t make a fatherless child? Or make that fatherless child raise the dead? Give sight? Heal the sick? Be raised alive?

Well, that may be the Ahmadis beliefs but it certainly is not what is part of Islam…

Muslims don’t justify their faith through demoting God over something which is a fabrication to give weight to their argument…

If Ahmadis believe God didn’t say ‘Be’ and Jesus was just a freak of nature :naooz:, then so be it…You are entitled to your beliefs…

Muslims however believe that Eesa :as: was created with just a Word of Allah :swt:…No explanations necessary…

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

Lajjo, I didn't say Hazrat Maryam was hermaphrodite, I said there are already phenomenon's out there that suggest such a birth can occur. Who knows there are more that we don't even know about.

The other issue is of miracle being bounded by nature or not. It is a common belief in all religions, not only Sunni Islam, that miracles are these extra ordinary events that happen unnaturally. I don't believe that. Try reading up on Hindu miracles, compared to those going up to heavens looks like a child's play.

Lastly is the issue of Allah can do this or Allah can't do that. I believe Allah can do anything, from raising Isa (as) to heavens with his body, to having him as a son, to bringing him down from the cross alive. But there is a sunnah of Allah that he follows and claims in Quran that he doesn't go against that.

To make it more clear, Allah can make fire under Hazrat Ibrahim (as) to turn into a beautiful flower, or he can give him an immune system that helps him recover from fire burns or can bring forth in minutes a rain storm so hard that the fire can't even start. In my view, all of these are nothing short of a miracle! Which one you believe actually happened is nothing more than a belief.

I believe in Islam that is alive and real life, that can bring back the spiritually dead to life and deaf to hear again & the blinds to see. Not the one that talks about all these in past tense fairy tales. And so I don't await a Messiah to descend on angel's shoulders from heavens, not because I believe Allah can't do that, He most certainly can, but because it is against His sunnah of how He sends His prophets.

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

I dont believe there are ever Miracles, just miraculous coincidences...
I dont think god ever breaks the laws of nature, all that we see as miracles happen for a scientific and logical reason.. Its the coincidence that is miraculous.
Thus its not unlikely that Mary was a hemophradite, nothing wrong with that. Its a miraculous coincidenc that this woman with such a rare genetic disorder could carry a prophet...

Re: “Jesus in India” a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

He has been sent…What part of ‘return’ don’t you understand?

And look at Pak’s reply…Doesn’t that make a lot of sense? It does, doesn’t it?

However Islam is about believing in Allah :swt: and a lot of ‘senseless’ and unseen things science cannot prove…

As Muslims we believe them…Many don’t…I have no quarrel…

But Muslims using science to explain God’s plans is absurd…

We just believe that Eesa :as: was a virgin birth by the Word of Allah :swt: and that he was lifted to the heavens and will return…

I don’t need science to validate my beliefs and spirituality…Islam is enough for it…

Re: "Jesus in India" a symposium @ Harvard Divinity School

Lajjo, I do. Wait for him.

But I don't wanna ...