[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
TO Sayda:
Your last mail about some allegations on the Promised Messiah is not related to the topic of thread. It would be nice if you open a new thread or put it into an older thread 'A Question to Ahmadis', so that it can be answered appropriately.
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fatehahmad, that's what I suggested above.. that we should take this topic to another thread...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
do u think i give a rat's ass
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PakistaniaAbroad, would you please mind your language?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
huh?? since when did this thread become another Ahmadi bashing festival?? i thought we were talking about Jesus's natural death..
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Who is basing Ahmadi? All I did was just state some facts from Qadiani history. I'm not bashing him, just telling the historical facts, since his ideas are being brought up here.
^well sadiya, if you were just enlightening us on your views, they should come from your personal research.. not from some Mr. Ludhyanvi's book.. or atleast from different sources...
p.s. still waiting for the reply for my last post addressed to you.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
p.s. still waiting for the reply for my last post addressed to you.
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easy brother, relax, you don't have a train to catch, do you?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
Explain this:
A)5:75 The Messiah, son of Maryam, was none but a Rasul, surely the Rasuls have passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman and they both used to take food…
(1) Jesus(pbuh) was only a Rasul,
(2) Rasuls before him have passed away.
3:143 Muhammad is no more than a Rasul, surely the Rasuls before him have already passed away. If then he dies or be killed, will you turn upon your heels?…
(1) Muhammad(pbuh) was only a Rasul,
(2) Rasuls before him have passed away
Any Exceptions???
B) (On day of Judgment Jesus will explain to God)
5:117 "I did not say to them anything except about what You had ordered me, namely, "serve Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb" and I was witness over them so long as I was with them, but when you caused me to die (wafat), You were Watcher over them. And You are a Witness over all things.
C)Lets talk about "alterations" in Quran. This is a popular translation of Sunni Muslims..
4:157 Hilali & Khan :"And because of their saying (in boast) "We killed Messiah Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," -but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Isa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)….
Show me the Arabic of "was Put over another man" in the verse..
(this is correct translation):157 And (because of) their saying: "Surely we have killed the Masih, - ‘Isa, son of Mar-yam" the Rasul of Allah, and they could not murder him, nor could they kill him by crucifixion, but he was made to resemble to them. And verily those who differ regarding him are certainly in a doubt about him. They have no knowledge about it but are merely following a guess; and they could not kill him for certain;
D)3:54 Behold! Allah Said: "O Isa! I shall cause you to die (Ya Isa, inni mutawaffika wa rafi’uka ilaiya) and I shall exalt you towards me and I shall clear you of those who reject Faith, and I am going to make those who follow you above those who reject Faith - until the day of Awakening. Then towards Me is your return, so that I shall decide among you as to in which you used to differ.
*Interpretation of the word ‘wafat’: * Among all the popular mainstream muslim translations Each and every scholar translated the word "wafat" as death in at least 20 different instances in their translations. However, in this particular verse, they interpreted the meaning as ‘take away’ and insinuate physical ascension.
*Interpretation of the word "rafa" – to raise/to exalt: *
the true meaning of the word ‘rafa’ – exalt in honor and/or exalt in spiritual dignity. This verse tells us that while the Jews were planning to kill him, (he will not be killed, rather) Allah will cause him to die a natural death and sanctify him against the charges of the enemies.
Now you decide??
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Like I said, different explaining of what is really meant.... It doesn't proove to me, that Jesus (pbuh) is dead. Allah has elevated Jesus (pbuh), because they wanted to harm the gift He had given them, Jesus (pbuh), so Allah took that gift away, by elevating Jesus (pbuh). He will come back to fight Dajjal (English spelling??) and then die, when all left will have accepted the true faith.
Dear brother, may Allah give you hadaya, may He show you the right path, aamien!
Innalillah e wainna Elehe Rajoon.
This prooves how ignorantly you argue. After giving clear proofs and at the end saying This is what im gonna believe no matter what you say. This reminds me of What Holy Quran says of such people. After giving them clear proofs they will still not believe.
One more thing Holy Prophet (saw) was the greates of All and if someone was to lifted up should have been Him. Not Isa (as). If Holy Prophet (saw) didnt get lifted no other prophet did period i can proove this from Holy Quran..
Al Isra 92-93
PICKTHAL: Or thou cause the heaven to fall upon us piecemeal, as thou hast pretended, or bring Allah and the angels as a warrant;
SHAKIR: Or you should cause the heaven to come down upon us in pieces as you think, or bring Allah and the angels face to face (with us).
PICKTHAL: Or thou have a house of gold; or thou ascend up into heaven, and even then we will put no faith in thine ascension till thou bring down for us a book that we can read. Say (O Muhammad): My Lord be Glorified! Am I aught save a mortal messenger? **
SHAKIR: Or you should have a house of gold, or you should ascend into heaven, and we will not believe in your ascending until you bring down to us a book which we may read. Say: Glory be to my Lord; am I aught but a mortal messenger?**
Look what Allah is saying in Holy Quran.. When the qurish of makka said. IF YOU ASCEND TO HEAVEN … but What God said in there reply Tell them O Prophet of ALlah that you are just a mortal messanger you cant do this. Cant you just take lesson from this ayet. Was God not powerful to lift up Holy Prophet (saw) at that time when Quresh was asking a sign. When Holy Prohet (saw) was getting stoned in Taief WHy didnt Allah raise him up then. Use some sence when speaking of Holy Quran. Before blaming someone that they dont believe in Holy Quran.
Surah AL Ambiya
021.034
YUSUFALI: **We granted not to any man before thee permanent life: if then thou shouldst die, would they live permanently? **
PICKTHAL: **We appointed immortality for no mortal before thee. What! if thou diest, can they be immortal! **
SHAKIR: And We did not ordain abiding for any mortal before you. What! Then if you die, will they abide?
look here what Allah is saying to Holy Prophet (saw). That Allah didnt grant any man before him a permanent life… Wasnt Hazret Isa (as) a human liven mortal man.
021.035
YUSUFALI: **Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return. **
PICKTHAL: Every soul must taste of death, and We try you with evil and with good, for ordeal. And unto Us ye will be returned.
SHAKIR: Every soul must taste of death and We try you by evil and good by way of probation; and to Us you shall be brought back.
Tell me one thing didnt Hazret Isa (as) came before Holy Prophet (saw). look what HOly Prophet (saw) said him self.
From Khutabaat`e Mustfa by Mohamad Khalil Khateeb
Read this link its not long… See what Holy Prohpet (saw) is saying NO PROPHET BEFORE ME LIVED FOR EVER THEY DIED.
Asbaab`e Nazool
I rest my case here if u still dont understand Quran. Pray for yur self that may Allah grant you the ability to understand.
Sadiya,
I was expecting a more educated reply on my post.. And you have wrapped up the discussion by mentioning Dajjal and his demise at the hand of jesus.. at first you have to prove it that he was elevated..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
Sadiya,
I was expecting a more educated reply on my post.. And you have wrapped up the discussion by mentioning Dajjal and his demise at the hand of jesus.. at first you have to prove it that he was elevated..
[/QUOTE]
Then you should read the article I translated again.
^I don't think Bible can be more authentic than Quran..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
^I don't think Bible can be more authentic than Quran..
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No, it isn't. But there are some good points in it. And when you read what the Quran tells us some of them do make sense.
^What bible says is that Jesus died and he was resurrected (wrong). What Mr. Deedat wanted to Prove is that Jesus did no die on cross(right). Bible says that Jesus was resurrected and then elevated to heavens (wrong). Quran says he died a natural death (absolutely right).