Re: jesus as god?
It is not arrogance to say I will believe in only one God. It is arrogance to say you will believe in only one or you will believe in many Gods. People need to believe in what they want. I dont tell you what flavor ice cream to eat. We dont all have to eat the same flavor.
regards,
bob
Re: jesus as god?
Let’s quote a little more: Jesus…said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” “Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.” Jesus said, “You have now seen him; id fact, he is the one speaking with you.” Then the man said, "Lord, I believe, " and he worshipped Him. i.e. Jesus.
The man worshipped Jesus and Jesus did not stop him but accepted to be worshipped!
All your other quotes merely indicate praying earnestly to God and the word “worship” is never used. Still waiting for that one quote from the Bible…
Re: jesus as god?
It actually is not shown in the New Testament that Jesus “worshipped” either the Father or God Almighty. If you do have a quote, please post it.
According to us Christians, God Almighty is made up of the Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit. Each can be referred to as God even though they only make up a part of the Tri-une God, as I showed in my previous post. Christians believe in only one true God but the Trinity/Tri-Une concept is a way to understand God better because of many references in the Bible scriptures to the functions and atributes of God. Unfortunately, there are many Christians who does not understand the place of the Holy Spirit or the true identity of Jesus in the Tri-Une Almighty God.
This thread was started to question why Christians believe Jesus to form part of the Godhead/entity since Jesus also worshipped this same God. Now, if Jesus DID worship God or the Father, Christians would have some explaining to do. I though did show that Jesus never “worshipped” God or the Father but often put him as equal to God and the Father.
Some quotes:
Titus2v13: …while we wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ… Jesus called God AND Saviour since we know Jesus will come alone. Basically the same we find in 2Pet1v1.
Rev.21v3: …Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. This last refer to Jesus during his second coming.
Jesus accepted worship according to Matt.28v9,17 Luk.24v52 and other
The prophecy of Jesus: …And he will be called…Mighty God, Everlasting Father… Isa.9v6
Above is but a few (of many) verses in Scripture by 7 different persons indicated that Jesus can be equated with God.
Re: jesus as god?
sigh OldMan - I already said in my prior post that I refer to them that way perhaps wrongly which you so convieniently edited out, what more do you want. Instead of nitpicking please read more than one or two lines.
You guys make me tired in more ways than one.
Jesus worshiped the Father.
Definition of worship
source: freesource
worship (RELIGION)
verb -pp- or US ALSO -p-
1 {T} to have or show a strong feeling of respect and admiration for God or a god
2 {I} to go to a religious ceremony:
worship
noun {U}
when you worship God or a god, often through praying or singing:
daily acts of worship
Christian/Sikh/Muslim worship
For Jews, the synagogue is the centre for community worship and study.
Local people have complained about improperly dressed tourists entering places of worship (= buildings for religious ceremonies or private prayer).
source: your dictionary
wor·ship Listen: wûrshp ]n.
2. Ardent devotion; adoration.
Jesus worshiped the Father daily through daily prayer, daily thanks. He adored the Father through his teachings. Jesus most certainly worshipped the Father, to not do so would have made him a poor example for the christians to follow.
Re: jesus as god?
Old Man I gave you the definition of the word worship in the NT. Jesus performs the text book definition of worship. I respect your right to believe as you please. However, this is what most trinitarian Christian believe: http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/grdebate.html
regards,
bob
Re: jesus as god?
very true. I can’t understand why people want to discuss these things in the first place and waste their time.
Re: jesus as god?
I see you accept that your first quote was out of context. Interestingly none of your other quotes where Jesus so-called grovelled before God, used your textbook word proskuneo! Jesus in these quotes earnestly pleaded to God the Father w.r.t. certain issues and I see nothing about “worship” in it. You can read up about how the word is used in Biblical scriptures here. It will also help you understand where the connection of grovelling in the meaning of the word come from.
About the site you quoted: The Unitarian and Oneness Theologies have some serious problems in explaining a vast number of Biblical scripture. The Arian Theology clash so much with Biblical scripture that it is considered to be heretic. The Trinitatian Theory has the least problems with Biblical scripture and is therefor the accepted way to consider God. You have a better theory that fits all the Biblical scriptures and I would like to hear it.
I do understand why you have a problem in accepting that Jesus was/is more than the prophet you believe he is. If he was/is anything else, your whole religious thinking/viewpoint will have to change. Therefor, accept what you read in the Qu’ran, I will accept what I get from the Bible, each to his own…
Nice talking to you and the other contributors in this thread without the rantings of some other people destroying the thread as was done in the past.
Re: jesus as god?
Well Jesus is not God, He is a messenger of God. If he is God then there is a little question. If Jesus wants you to stay alive and the Father God wants you to die right now. What will happen? Will you die or stay alive?
Regards
Re: jesus as god?
aha....looks like my thread got every1 going ;)
Re: jesus as god?
OMG first of all welcome to GS…i totally agree with u, Jesus AS was messenger of God nothing more, nothing less. But i was just asking a question and thinking what a christian might answer..
Re: jesus as god?
Out of context? I dont think you understood what I was saying. I could be wrong. Why dont you tell me what you think I was trying to say?
You dont know my religious view point. So I doubt you could understand my problem with Jesus not being more than a prophet. For one thing, I havent even argued that Jesus was not more than a prophet, so far. Thanks for suggesting it has been nice talking to me. Although, I must say, I find it insulting for you to tell me what I should and shouldnt read, Quran or Bible.
regards,
bob
Re: jesus as god?
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/grdebate.html
This is the trinitarian theology that Catholics and most Protestant churches teach. There are Christian individuals who kind of mix and match, which is normal. For example minah believes that Jesus is not God. That is a belief borrowed from Arian and Unitarian theology. Old Man believes that Jesus never worshipped God. This is a part of the oneness theology. Some Pentecostal groups such as the United Pentecostal Church, The Pentecostal Assemblies of the Word, The Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ and others believe it. However, this is not the view of the dominant majority of Trinitarians Christians of the world. So, you see Old Man I wouldnt be arguing Jesus was a prophet, just because he worshipped God. Trinitarians generally, already believe that Jesus was God and worshipped God. I was simply pointing out why this line of argument is not effective. Go back and read my first post on this thread.
regards,
bob
Re: jesus as god?
i don't care who Jesus is, I just listen to his teachings. They're awesome.