jesus as god?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

One thing I dont understand is IF Jesus(AS) was God himself why He used to worship God???

2

Re: jesus as god?

err.. in christianity he is the son of the God.
in islam he is the prophet, one of the messenger of Allah.

i dont think he is the God himself in any religion :-/

Pakistan Day Festival
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Re: jesus as god?

Suroor: In christianity, he is son of God and treated as God... they ask in the name of Jesus.. :-)

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Re: jesus as god?

Dont waste your time with this one. This line of thinking will not prove to any Christian that Jesus was (only) mortal. a Christians might answer, for the same reason you read the alphabet to your children. You dont read the alphabet to understand or learn it do you? You simply read it to show your children how to learn it.

regards,

bob

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Re: jesus as god?

suroor has it right anwaar

Bob - Jesus was mortal for a reason, he was not immortal because he had to die. Brush up before you preach christianity,

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Re: jesus as god?

Yes I should have been more considerate of the hypostatic union argument. Therefore, just to please you, folks this line of argument is not going to help you convince a Paulian Christian to reject the divinity of Jesus. Are we at peace now? By the way, Jesus is fully God according to the Nicene creed.

regards,

bob

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Re: jesus as god?

^ why even raise an argument?

dont mock another persons faith..

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Re: jesus as god?

Sometimes people are curious and just trying to understand. Other times they can become offensive and rude, which I agree is not right.

regards,

bob

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Re: jesus as god?

bob - here is the Nicene Creed. Oh yeah, I think I have said over and over ad nauseum that I am a Catholic and I only speak about my faith. All Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholics. So, if I speak, It is with a Catholic background.

If you wish to have someone defend a Paulian (an original christian but now identified as a non-denominational christian offshoot) then find one, I am not one. That would be the same as asking a Shiia to defend a Sunni ritual/belief (get it now?? both are Muslim, but differect sects, different rituals/beliefs).

  source : [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11049a.htm](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11049a.htm)

Allow me to point out to you that the begining of this creed sharply defines both as being seperate and continues to assert that through out. Surprise, surprise, it also actually asserts Jesus was a man. If you don’t understand the English used, I can help you tomorrow after I wake up.

  Once again, I say to you to learn (or just try actually reading) before you preach.
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Re: jesus as god?

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd02313.htm

consubstantial
(Latin: con, with; substantia, substance)

A translation of the Greek, homousios, chosen at the Council of Nicæa (A.D. 325) as the only correct word to express the nature of the Son of God. He is not inferior to the Father, nor posterior, nor merely like unto Him, but identical in substance and in essence with Him. He is truly God, God of very God, consubstantial with the Father, as the Nicene Creed has it, having, or rather, being, the Godhead no less than the Father.

New Catholic Dictionary

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Re: jesus as god?

bob - identical means identical does not mean being the same person/being. The are both seperate but the same, doesn't mean they are one. 

 For lack of a better way of saying this (and this is NOT what this is either but the closest thing) it is like a clone.

EDIT: Sorry, continuing on......

He was God's son, a personification of God on earth (he was NOT God but God personified, seperate but identical). Just as any son is the personification of their father. You may be a different person, you may look different, talk different, have different interests, but a son is a personification of their father because the family lives through the son. It is the same applied here. God was God, Jesus was the personification of God, identical in spirit but seperate.

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Re: jesus as god?

He is not just identical, but identical in substance and in essence with Him. He is truly God. However, the bible says, your LORD is ONE. Hence, they have to be identical in substance and in essence as ONE, truly God, not two clone beings as Gods in substance and essence. Jesus is part of the Godhead of Christianity. He is YHWH. I am not here to to ridicule your belief. That is part of the mystery of your God, so I will just leave it alone at that.

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Re: jesus as god?

I knew it was a mistake saying clone, that word sounds horrible, I may just burn in h*ll for that one *uff. *

Bob - they are one in essence bcause they are identical, NOT because they are one being. The key point here being** in essence**. You are not the only one who has a problem grasping this concept, many Catholics and christians have a hard time understanding the Trinity and the relationship between them. If it was all one entity (God) then it could not be a Trinity.

My Bible does not say my Lord is one (meaning the same as) - they are one in Spirit, one in essence, but two seperate beings. Otherwise why state over and over and over the Father and the Son. Please do me a favor and give me the passage that says this:

[QUOTE]
However, the bible says, your LORD is ONE.
[/QUOTE]
and I will give you the correct interpretation of it.

I know you are not here to ridicule, however, you are not as versed as you believe you are.

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Re: jesus as god?

I used the quotation to demonstrate that the one God in the Bible is YHWH. I demonstrated that Jesus was fully God according to the Nicene creed, therefore YHWH, nothing less. The discussion is whether Jesus is God not whether he is the Father. Secondly I advised not to debate the divinty of Jesus based on the fact he worshipped God in the Gospel. Finally, I think it is kind of arrogant for you to think you are better versed in the Bible than me and that I dont know as much as I think. I think actions speak louder than words. Why would you say such a thing? How do you plan on defending your statements suggesting that Jesus is not God (YHWH)?

regards,

bob

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Re: jesus as god?

Bob - No you didn’t demonstrate, I showed you where you were wrong and you dismissed it. There’s a difference. Not knowing the meaning of the word identical (which is a comparitive word) vs same is a problem you have in vocabulary.

God is the Father, Bob, that’s the point of the Nicene Creed, also in fact the point of the New Testament establishing the New Covenant as God as the Father of all believers.

Where did this come from? The fact that I asked you to actually back up your statement about “However, the bible says, your LORD is ONE”? Either put the scripture out there or don’t use it.

:rolleyes: Not even going to bother with this.

I believe I have. But there are still a few outstanding statements made by you that I am still awaiting a reply on.

   Especially this.

Brief side issue here - “the name Yahweh is only used for the old covenant context, and not valid for Christians, who believe that they are in a new covenant. This is evident when nowhere in the New Testament does the word Yahweh appear.” (taken from here). So, do me a favor, give this a rest already.

First you say you am not here to ridicule my belief then you throw out something as condescending as “That is part of the mystery of your God, so I will just leave it alone at that”. The mystery of my God??

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Re: jesus as god?

frozenfire said:

One thing I dont understand is IF Jesus(AS) was God himself why He used to worship
God????????????

**
suroor said:

i dont think he is the God himself in any religion :-/
**
anwaar said:

In christianity, he is son of God and treated as God...

**

minah said: suroor has it right anwaar

**

How does suroor have it right? How is Jesus not God in Christianity? I posted the Nicene creed. It says Jesus is fully God and no less than God.

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Re: jesus as god?

[quote]
First you say you am not here to ridicule my belief then you throw out something as condescending as "That is part of the mystery of your God, so I will just leave it alone at that". The mystery of my God??
[/quote]

Since I am not asking you to explain how a person can be 100% fully God and fully man, at the same time.

Who is searching for you?
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Re: jesus as god?

Can u explain God 100%?

We make him as mysterious as not being able to comprehend Him ourselves. This is what makes us, the human beings, so interesting :slight_smile:

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Re: jesus as god?

[QUOTE]
frozenfire said:

One thing I dont understand is IF Jesus(AS) was God himself why He used to worship
God????????????

**
suroor said:

i dont think he is the God himself in any religion :-/
**
anwaar said:

In christianity, he is son of God and treated as God...

**

minah said: suroor has it right anwaar

**

How does suroor have it right? How is Jesus not God in Christianity? I posted the Nicene creed. It says Jesus is fully God and no less than God.
[/QUOTE]

Bob - you are assuming wrongly that Frozen Fire was working with the right concept in asking his question. He wasn't.

Suroor is correct, he is not God. God and Jesus are two seperate entities (for the millionth time)

Anwaar misunderstands the concept as do quite a few Muslims, including yourself, if you are indeed Muslim. My husband did for a short while also, luckily he is blessed with a good grasp of language and caught on quickly once he read a bit more.

Once again, read the Nicene Creed which I posted. It is quite clear about how they are seperate entities and not the same.

Why do you continue to push the same thing over and over and over? Take a breath and sit and read, that second link I provided is from a Muslim site going over the differences between christianity and Islam (I believe they were also supporting the idea of Islam being the true religion, regardless, they also support what I am saying here).

Instead of coming here, throwing things out there without taking the time to research what you say, try taking some time and reading.

lost soul :)

You know Bob, you and I are consubstantial - neither of us in essence is greater or lesser or different from the other. Our spirit is the same essence. We have a different form, different life, different way of belief, different points of view, but we are consubstantial. When we die, what is left is the same as all who die prior and after. Think about it.

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Re: jesus as god?

hello lostsoul,

Vision comprehends Him not doesnt mean we dont comprehend God. Right now the issue is, can we reasonably claim to understand God 100% and also claim not to understand God 100% at the same time?

regards,

bob