Jeremy Scahill's bombshell article about Pakistan and Blackwater

[ravage]

Jeremy Scahill recently wrote an article, alleging that Blackwater operates heavily in Pakistan, and is involved even in operations. They accomplish this by subcontracting for the real blackwater of Pakistan, Kestral. See his interview here. Kestral and Blackwater operate at a level that even Obama might not be privy to.

Before you go running out of your house in panic, burn tires on the street etc, watch this video though. An interview of the man Jeremey Scahill alleges is running the show in Pakistan, is plugged into all the avenues of power.

An Exclusive Interview with Mr. Liaquat Ali Baig, CEO, Kestral Trading

Somehow.. I dont find this very typical sharif sai expat uncle who complains about the driving in Islamabad as the root of all Blackwater evil in Pakistan.

This is like finding out the man behind the curtain in the wizard of Oz is Elmer Fudd.

Be sure to watch the whole interview. No special ops guy can fake that kind of authentic ‘uncle’.

So whats going on? Wildly inaccurate reporting, or unbelievably deep cover adopted by the evil Ali Baig?

[mercenary2k]

Re: Jeremy Scahill’s bombshell article about Pakistan and Blackwater

how many Pakistanis have been injured or killed by BlackWater or DynaCorp?

ZERO and the best these mullahs can do is complain about their driving……has this idiot been on a Pakistani road…with tongas, richshaws, bicycles, and youngters drag racing…this idiot needs to get his priorities straight

If innocent Pakistanis are killed recklessly by BlackWater and DynaCorp…then my opinion will change but right now Pakistan is a very dangerous place for foreigners and thus they need protection and so the need for BlackWater and DynaCorp.

[picoico]

@mercenary2k

how many Pakistanis have been injured or killed by BlackWater or DynaCorp?

What a ridiculous question...when taking part of military operations, these organizations hardly operate out in the open, masqareding as either legit troops or covertly altogether. It's impossible to say either way, as such groups have ZERO oversight. It's not like they're mandated to drive around flying the Xe flag...

Claims of Xe, et al. taking part in operations in Pakistan can only be written off as "plausible".

[mercenary2k]

What a ridiculous question...when taking part of military operations, these organizations hardly operate out in the open, masqareding as either legit troops or covertly altogether. It's impossible to say either way, as such groups have ZERO oversight. It's not like they're mandated to drive around flying the Xe flag...

Claims of Xe, et al. taking part in operations in Pakistan can only be written off as "plausible".

In other words ZERO

if they had...you and people like Zaid Hamid would have been jumping up and down like jack rabbits

[picoico]

In other words ZERO

if they had...you and people like Zaid Hamid would have been jumping up and down like jack rabbits

Me? You'd be okay with a bunch of foreign terrorists wandering Pakistan so long as they're American...double standards...

Anyhow, exercising this (il)logic, many terrorists have killed ZERO people...

In any case, given their modus ope*****, the onus is on people like "you" to prove Xe and/or any other contractors have not murdered in Pakistan either...

[mercenary2k]

Exercising this (il)logic, many terrorists have killed ZERO people...

In any case, given their modus ope*****, the onus is on people like "you" to prove Xe and/or any other contractors have not murdered in Pakistan either...

They haven't since there is no proof.

And I know people like you are working overtime to find any tangible link but since you havent that means that Xe or DynaCorp are there to guard diplomats since Pakistan is a dangerous country for foreigners.

As for terrorists killing Zero people and still being considered a terrorist. If we apply that logic to Muslims, then all Muslims can be considered terrorists by people in the west.

Develop some rational thought before you jump into an argument.

[picoico]

They haven't since there is no proof.

The train of thought is not really difficult:

a) Xe is a militant outfit known to commit atrocities
b) Suggestion is that they are taking part of counter-insugancy operations
c) Such operations are not really done out in the open

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Now, be a dear and tell me how my original claim, (that this is "plausible", given the history of Xe), is somehow absurd compared to your flippant "can't happen" stance.

You're point regarding applying this illogic to Muslims is moot, not to mention malformed; you're the one exercising this reasonin, not myself. To put it in simpler terms, are you prepared to extend this weak reasoning to terrorist activites with plausible denial?

To spell it out even more clearly for those who have issues with comprehension, if there is denial of involvement in particular attacks blamed on terrorists, will one demand proof, or rely on past history of terrorists?

[mercenary2k]

The train of thought is not really difficult:

a) Xe is a militant outfit known to commit atrocities

Thats not their modus ope*****. They are a security company designed to provide security to VIP, diplomats. Their only instance of atrocities. They were throughlly invetigated, the Hadita massacare.

b) Suggestion is that they are taking part of counter-insugancy operations

But there is no proof of that, just allegations. Find me some concrete proof.

c) Such operations are not really done out in the open

And thus negates your whole point. Since you don't know what they are doing, you are letting your imagination run wild.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

In a court of law, a case without proof is dismissed.

Now, be a dear and tell me how my original claim, (that this is "plausible", given the history of Xe), is somehow absurd compared to your flippant "can't happen" stance.

Because in 2004, there was no oversight over these companies which led to the Haditha Massacare. Now there is. Even Xe has said they only have 1 employee in Pakistan.

I think Xe and other Security companies have become the new Jews, Hindus, Zionists and other boogey man to Pakistanis willing to blame all the ills of their country on them.

You're point regarding applying this illogic to Muslims is moot, not to mention malformed; you're the one exercising this reasonin, not myself. To put it in simpler terms, are you prepared to extend this weak reasoning to terrorist activites with plausible denial?

Since Xe is not a terrorist organization, any allegations against them, they will be given the benefit of the doubt. Not to groups like Al Qaeda or TTP.

To spell it out even more clearly for those who have issues with comprehension, if there is denial of involvement in particular attacks blamed on terrorists, will one demand proof, or rely on past history of terrorists?

Since the only past history of Xe was one incident...I much rather take the track record of Xe over TTP or Al Qaeda.

Or can I twist the logic and apply it to Pakistan Army.

Since Pakistan Army committed crimes in Bangladesh in 1971, and thus can I deduce that they still are?

Or when Zia and Pakistani Trainers fought with Jordanian forces in 1970 agaisnt Palestinians, can I deduce that Pakistani Army is Anti-Palestinian?

Or when Germans committed crimes during World War II, can I deduce that they are still doing so?

Your logic hasn't gotten a leg to stand on.

[shardmanny]

Re: Jeremy Scahill's bombshell article about Pakistan and Blackwater

i think isi prevented the establishment of a large blackwater operation in pakistan as it was being implemented, hence the police raids, weapon seizures, publicity but lack of video footage. even if we stick to the definition of blackwater as 'security personell' working under any company name tasked with protecting american diplomats, pakistanis have rejected them never-the-less. the co-ordination targetting this specific group suggests establishment involvement and the ferocity involved confirms blackwater are no mere security guards (with their newfound 'oversight?' yet continued illegal weapons systems!)

well done isi

[champ]

@mercenary2k

how many Pakistanis have been injured or killed by BlackWater or DynaCorp?

ZERO and the best these mullahs can do is complain about their driving……has this idiot been on a Pakistani road…with tongas, richshaws, bicycles, and youngters drag racing…this idiot needs to get his priorities straight

If innocent Pakistanis are killed recklessly by BlackWater and DynaCorp…then my opinion will change but right now Pakistan is a very dangerous place for foreigners and thus they need protection and so the need for BlackWater and DynaCorp.

Tell me One thing , Would you like a Thug to stay in your home even if he doesn’t do anything & will tell you that whatever wrongs thing he will do you will not be harmed by them ???

[picoico]

Thats not their modus ope*****. They are a security company designed to provide security to VIP, diplomats. Their only instance of atrocities. They were throughlly invetigated, the Hadita massacare.

LOL...and OBL was merely the head of a construction company.

They're a military near-source operation, and have been involved in much more than simple VIP security, even doing routine escort missions.

Now word is out that they have been contracted by intelligence agencies, to the extent of operating drones.

Whatever the case, this much is clear: they have little to no oversight. They do not follow typical chain of command structures. This is fine for training foreign soldiers. This is not fine for taking part in CIA operations.

[quote]

In a court of law, a case without proof is dismissed.

[/quote]

No one is arguing for prosecution, mere plausibility. Further, presumption of innocence may be neccessary in the courts, but it's insane when talking about an organization that is licensed to kill.

[quote]

Because in 2004, there was no oversight over these companies which led to the Haditha Massacare. Now there is. Even Xe has said they only have 1 employee in Pakistan.

[/quote]

The complaints remain.

Nor was haditha the sole screw-up on the part of Blackwater, but hey, the same can be said of the American military. What is different is that Blackwater is a mercenary outfit that fights for money; it is no different than Pakistan outsourcing to militant groups, contorting arguments aside.

[quote]

I think Xe and other Security companies have become the new Jews, Hindus, Zionists and other boogey man to Pakistanis willing to blame all the ills of their country on them.

[/quote]

No doubt...Pakistanis can do nothing but wrong, and everyone else is a sweet heart...

[quote]

Since Xe is not a terrorist organization, any allegations against them, they will be given the benefit of the doubt. Not to groups like Al Qaeda or TTP.

[/quote]

No they won't. They're mercenaries, and close kin to non-state actors and terrorists. One of the reasons why governments like them so much...

[quote]

Since the only past history of Xe was one incident...I much rather take the track record of Xe over TTP or Al Qaeda.

[/quote]

Unkown. And there are plenty more of documented greivences against tthem.

[quote]

Since Pakistan Army committed crimes in Bangladesh in 1971, and thus can I deduce that they still are?

[/quote]

No doubt you would...it seems only Americans and Blackwater can escape this logic. Personally, if word were out that the Pak. Army committed atrocities in Balochistan, then given their past history, I'd consider this highly plausible, and merit of investigation. I certianly wouldn't stick my head in the ground and pretend all is well.

Once again, I shouldn't need to remind you that this logic is yours...and it's non-uniform application is your trademark, nobody elses.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Jeremy Scahill's bombshell article about Pakistan and Blackwater

I find it hard to believe that such a programe can run without Obama or its staff's knowledge. If it exists then white house is on board.

[ravage]

Re: Jeremy Scahill's bombshell article about Pakistan and Blackwater

^ moreso... the guy he says is Dr. Evil in Pakistan is pretty clueless uncle-ish.

[mercenary2k]

LOL...and OBL was merely the head of a construction company.

They're a military near-source operation, and have been involved in much more than simple VIP security, even doing routine escort missions.

Now word is out that they have been contracted by intelligence agencies, to the extent of operating drones.

Whatever the case, this much is clear: they have little to no oversight. They do not follow typical chain of command structures. This is fine for training foreign soldiers. This is not fine for taking part in CIA operations.

CIA falls under Domestic Jurisdiction with Oversight from the Senate Intelligence Committee. And thus there is proper oversight for this. JSOC is not under civilian jurisdiction and thus if BlackWater is involved in intelligence gathering, they are working directly for US Special Forces.

No one is arguing for prosecution, mere plausibility. Further, presumption of innocence may be neccessary in the courts, but it's insane when talking about an organization that is licensed to kill.

I think you are just paranoid. How many Pakistanis have they killed vs TTP?

The complaints remain.

Nor was haditha the sole screw-up on the part of Blackwater, but hey, the same can be said of the American military. What is different is that Blackwater is a mercenary outfit that fights for money; it is no different than Pakistan outsourcing to militant groups, contorting arguments aside.

Find me more proof of BlackWater's allegations. Hadita happened in 2005. 4 Years since then, do you have any other allegations BlackWater?

No doubt...Pakistanis can do nothing but wrong, and everyone else is a sweet heart...

With our current leadership...no doubt. And Pakis love conspiracy nonsense...blame everyone but themselves....among the many reasons we lost Bangladesh.

No they won't. They're mercenaries, and close kin to non-state actors and terrorists. One of the reasons why governments like them so much...

But again. You have no proof just a lot of hot air. There is a long list of TTP and Al Qaeda terrorist activities. How many terrorist attacks has BlackWater been responsible for in Pakistan?

Unkown. And there are plenty more of documented greivences against tthem.

Then please post some documented greviances.....Google should be your best friend

No doubt you would...it seems only Americans and Blackwater can escape this logic. Personally, if word were out that the Pak. Army committed atrocities in Balochistan, then given their past history, I'd consider this highly plausible, and merit of investigation. I certianly wouldn't stick my head in the ground and pretend all is well.

Once again, I shouldn't need to remind you that this logic is yours...and it's non-uniform application is your trademark, nobody elses.

But there has been investigations against BlackWater. That is what you fail utterly to comprehend. America is not Pakistan where an Army can commit war crimes and get away with it.

The way American journalists exposed Abu Gharib, Hadita Killings or Mai Lai Massacare in Vietnam.

There is much more accountability in USA than Pakistan.

We still don't know the full details of Kargil.

[shardmanny]

Re: Jeremy Scahill's bombshell article about Pakistan and Blackwater

opening article needs relinking

anyone know what happend to the arrested zaidi named dude of inter-risk?