Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

Society Religion & Philosophy
321

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

*
O you who believe! when you consult the Messenger, then offer something in charity before your consultation; that is better for you and purer; but if you do not find, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 58:12*

322

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi


You on the right forum bro??

323

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

lolz! I better reconsider my statement.

324

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

you did not posted the next ayah..........i do it for you. and also commentary on this ayat from tafseer ibn kathir.

58;12. O you who believe! When you (want to) consult the Messenger in private, spend something in charity before your private consultation. That will be better and purer for you. But if you find not (the means for it), then verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)
(13. Are you afraid of spending in charity before your private consultation (with him) If then you do it not, and Allah has forgiven you, then perform Salah and give Zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah is All-Aware of what you do.)

Allah commanded His believing servants, when any of them wanted to speak with Allah's Messenger in secret, to give away charity beforehand so that his charity cleanses and purifies him and makes him worthy of having a private counsel with the Prophet . This is why Allah the Exalted said,

That will be better and purer for you.) then He said,
(But if you find not.) meaning, if he is unable to do so due to poverty,
(then verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) He only commanded those who are financially able to give this type of charity. Allah the Exalted said,

(Are you afraid of spending in charity before your private consultation) meaning, are you afraid that the order to give charity before speaking privately to the Prophet remains in effect forever

(If then you do it not, and Allah has forgiven you, then perform Salah and give Zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah is All-Aware of what you do.) Therefore, Allah abrogated the obligation of giving this charity. It was said that none has implemented this command before except its abrogation, Ali bin Abi Talib.Ali bin Abi Talhah reported from Ibn `Abbas:

(spend something in charity before your private consultation.) "The Muslims kept asking Allah's Messenger questions until it became difficult on him. Allah wanted to lighten the burden from His Prophet , upon him be peace. So when He said this, many Muslims were afraid to pay this charity and stopped asking. Afterwards, Allah sent down this Ayah,

(Are you afraid of spending in charity before your private consultation If then you do it not, and Allah has forgiven you, then perform Salah and give Zakah) Thus Allah made things easy and lenient for them.'' `Ikrimah and Al-Hasan Al-Basri commented on Allah's statement:

(spend something in charity before your private consultation.) "This was abrogated by the next Ayah:

(Are you afraid of spending in charity before your private consultation...).'' Said bin AbiArubah reported from Qatadah and Muqatil bin Hayyan, "People kept questioning Allah's Messenger until they made things difficult for him. Allah provided a way to stop their behavior by this Ayah. One of them would need to speak to Allah's Prophet about a real matter, but could not do so until he gave in charity. This became hard on people and Allah sent down relief from this requirement afterwards,

(But if you find not, then verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful).'' Ma`mar reported from Qatadah that the Ayah

(When you (want to) consult the Messenger in private, spend something in charity before your private consultation.) was abrogated after being in effect for only one hour of a day. Abdur-Razzaq recorded that Mujahid said thatAli said, "No one except me implemented this Ayah, until it was abrogated,'' and he was reported to have said that it remained in effect for merely an hour.

325

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

So now we are down to abrogation of Quranic verses! Have you copied and pasted this or is this your analysis?

~►► What is difference ??? ◄◄~ [anti-women thread]
326

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

it seems you didn't even read it.......... i wrote that its from tafsir ibn kathir.

327

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi


yes I did read it (already have years back) and I wanted to place emphasis on something

~►► What is difference ??? ◄◄~ [anti-women thread]
328

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

You missed my point. The point is that Qur'an discusses life of the Prophet in an indirect way. God talks to Prophet, Believers (Sahaba), hypocrates, polytheists of Arabia, Jews and Christians. From this discucssion, we infer that what is for us. The applicability of any verse will be seen later, but it has to be first appreciated that Qur'an talks with these groups which I mentioned above and then we infer for ourselves. And by the way, even if you read Ibn-e-Kathir, it is actually again connecting the verse with a certain situation in Prophet's life. I don't know what point you really want to make.

329

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

How do you know that the reason behind this ayah is to discourage hypocrites.

And whats wrong in it?
I dont know either what point you want to make out of it. I dont know why did you even quote this ayah?

330

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

Dr Israr is not good at debating or arguing, but I still would like to see this debate in text format; kindly do it for all here. Then all you doing is claims, Ghamidi is this, Ghamidi is that; we will see what he is.

331

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

lol, Quran was desent on Muhammad s.a.w while the live audience were Sahabah, why wouldn't they both be mentioned in Quran. And what are Sahabah? Were they Prophets or Angels? Was Quran descent especially for Sahabah? If so then this is not justice to those who came after Sahabah including us, we know Allah can't be unjust; therefore there are no particular Ahkaam which Allah gave to Sahabah only. This is only the STUPIDITY and NIFAQ of Ghamidi that the Ahkaam we discussed above were aimed at Sahabah only.

[quote]
In this whole conversation, laws and different stories are told in this debate but not separately. This is why every command of Qur'an will be read in its context. It will be seen that which part of Qur'an is given to which group or person and then we will deduce that what is now for us in it. This is the practice of all our top scholars who always to try to connect each of Qur'an with life of Prophet Muhammad.
[/quote]

lol, now you talk about TOP SCHOLARS while these Top Scholars become Idiots when Ghamidi has his own isolated ideas against them.

[quote]
Qiblah issue is a classical example to explain what I just explained above. It tells us that Sahabah were asked to change Qiblah to see that which people were true believers and which were hypocrates. It was asked to Sahaba to change Qiblah and since then this new Qiblah has come to us through Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad but we are not asked to change Qiblah.
[/quote]

Don't play with words, give me a straight forward YES or NO.
Is the verse to change Qiblah addressing Sahabah only or no?
Is the Command of change of Qiblah specific for Sahabah or all Believers?

[quote]
It is actually Khizar (as), not Zulqarnain (as). By the way, there is alot of debate on it.
[/quote]

Grow up man!
I nowhere talked about Khadir; the verse I mentioned says Thil Qarnain by name, it doesn't say Khadir; scroll up or go to the previous page, check the verse again, it talks about Thil Qarnain who did Qitaal of Enemies of Allah or in your language he punished them.
My question is if Thil Qarnain was a Prophet or the Companion of a Prophet?

[quote]
The verse says that they know the Prophet just like they know their own sons. This means that the status of Prophet Muhammad (sws) was known to these people just like they knew their sons. This statement can never be accepted to any degree for "people of the book" for today. Maybe afew know about Prophet Muhammad as a true Prophet of God and they are not accepting him because of their own arrogance, but this can definitely not be said for all Christians and Jews of modern world.
[/quote]

Again lame and stupid explanations!
What documented evidence you can provide me that the people of Book at the time of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w were different from those of Today in terms of their knowledge?
Show me where does it say that the people of Book at the time of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w were more knowledgable than they are today.

[quote]
Secondly, in modern times, because there is no revelation of God, there is no way to know that truth is clear to someone to an extent that Qur'an uses the acquantance of someone's son with the realization of truth.
[/quote]

What an Idiotic comment!
Man, Quran was not revealed to the People of the Book, it was revealed to Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam.
So either they were at the time of Prophet or in the present time, Quran is the same to them, they have either to believe it or not.

[quote]

I don't know why you are not taking following verses of Qur'an seriously that talk about punishment of adversaries of Prophet Muhammad by God through hands of Sahaba.

قَاتِلُوهُمْ يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللَّهُ بِأَيْدِيكُمْ

Fight them and God will punish them with your hands. (9:14)

[/quote]

You and your Ghamidi will never grow up, if you remain the same, stubborn and extremist.
The Chapter Taubah (9) starts with

بَرَاءةٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ إِلَى الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتُّم مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

009.001 A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Apostle, to those of the Mushrikeen with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-

Allah exists even today, as He existed at the time of Sahabah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah still today as he was at the time of Sahabah. Mushrikeen have the same status in Allah's sight today as it was at the time of Sahabah. No?
If yes, then still the openning of this chapter indicates that these verses are addressing Sahabah?

GHAMIDI'S Cleverness

Ghamidi and his likes try to be very smart. They reject hadith as a whole and claim that Quran is everything about the life of Prophet (Sunnah); well, I accept that, but then you can't use hadith when you are in need, right?
But I know you must use hadith where you need to twist Quran to suit your deviations.

As I am not using any hadith in my discussion, don't ever refer to any hadith before me.

Now explain the verses of Taubah from 1 to 14 without using any hadith or historical account; let's see if you can really swim or you have only seen fish swim.

By the way what you think of this verse of the same chapter Taubah:

009.006 If one amongst the Mushrikeen ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

Since the audience of this verse is also Sahabah because of the CONTEXT, what you think of giving asylum to Mushrikeen?
Why would we ever give asylum to them when this command is not directed to us?

Since your Chacha Ghamidi believes that Agressive Jihad ended with Sahabah and now Muslims can do only Defensive Jihad, the following verses 09:13 and 09:14 oppose your views:

009.013 Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Apostle, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

009.014 Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

So Allah punished Mushrikeen through Sahabah's Defensive Jihad, no?

By the way what Allah does to Kuffar whom Muslims fight in Defense today?
Is it Allah's gift or punishment?

332

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

I think it would be better if you see the video yourself as the debate is more than one hour long and is in two different parts. I might write important parts of the debate but after reading your previous replies, I don't see any point in further discussion. I am also getting busy again in my studies. I might come back to this forum after some time. Hence, best fo luck to all of the participants of this debate. Cheers!

333

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

It cannot be ' BAINAKUM ' bcoz it means between you or among you,
and it will be like this.....' kill each other among you '.....Allah is only ordering only one group(believing group) to kill (non beliving group) and not to everyone.

It cant be ' ego ' either....bcoz ego is ana, zaat and gharour in Arabic.

The word ' anfusakum ' (kill yourselves) has used bcoz they were all related and they knew who is on the true path and who's not.

334

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

Allah created every thing including Insan and Jin. Humans were given full freedom and then have to be accountable to Allah in the akhrat. Only and only creator can decide whom he will forgive and whom he would punish. Allah does not give wisdom (danai) to everyone. And also, only Allah can help to get Hadaet.
If you have red Quran and actually understood it, then you would not say any bad things about Jawed Ahmed Ghamdi. In my view, he is a real Islamic scholar who actually understands the message of the Quran and does not get entangled into incidental examples or things those have no much of the importance or are purely cultural. We are islamists and not a good muslims.
See in World, some Islamists have permitted themselves to carry out the works only Allah is entitled to do. No one has right, specially, muslims, to announce someone kafir or nonislamist. We Islamists still stuck with, hijab, shalwar, burqa, and similar things that cause spliting the hormony of the societies. Instead of contributing to the world in discovering the greatness of Allah and his design of the universe (other nations are doing so) we are stuck to things that have no importance.
I believe, you may want to look Mr Ghamdi's explanations of Quran and issues Ummah is facing currently, in a positive way. He, in my view, is blessing not only for islamists but for other beliefs and kinds. May Allah bless all of us. Amen.

~*~ Happy Birthday IS Bhai ~*~
335

Hadrath Abubakar ordered Jihad against so called muslim who stated we believe in one GOD Prophet as his last messenger will pray 5 times a day will do hujj will obey every commandment but would not pay zakat, Abubakar called them murtid and all sahaba agreed with him and did jihad against teh tribe. by ur logic Abubakar and all sahaba MaazAllah were wrong?
ur 2nd point abt hijab and shalwar etc, these defines Muslim culture as identity beyond Nationalism, a Islamic brotherhood an Islamic culture that unite us, I agree that there shouldnt be restriction on shalwar or arabic dress baggy pants ok with me, the point is to wear something simple and comfortable. As for hijab its for woman protection u can debate on face hijab all u want, the fact remains, woman is ordered in Quran to hide her zeenat and an aba will do nicely. As Babra sharif once famously said aakhir log humara chehra he to dekhtey hain;) face is imp part of zeenat so how can u not hide it.

336

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

He is like tht donkey who has loots of loots of book on his back but dont know any thing about the knowledge of tht book.

he is like ABU MUSA ALASHRI (a historic person)

337

100% Right bro.

If anyone want to know more about this Modern agent of yahood. Try following

Nida-e-Khilafat - Tanzeem-e-Islami                                                                                  __---                                                                                                 vv     ](http://tanzeem.org/online/ebooks/Fikr-e-Gamdi%20ka%20ilmi%20jaiza/main.asp)

338

Salam again,

Once agian I see people offering their "self" in order to defend the religion of their ansesters or of the majority they are born in :)
I see people telling people NOT to read and listen and hear and confirm and THINK for themselves but to read and believe whatever they tell them to because for what they have listened from their AAQAS is the absolute truth! and making them believe they will come to their rescue when they find themselves before their LORD and being questioned... why they believed in what they believed in!
Will they?? well you'll be surprised what Allah SWT has to say about that!

I know there are still plenty who fall for this "make fool of yourselves" strategy but still optimistic about this generation.

jazakAllah

p.s.

Before some of you start calling me ghamidian, parvezian, ahmedian,deobandian etc etc etc whatever zillion sections you have made, save your breath!!
I surrender to non but Allah! and understand "hoAllahulHaq". So whoever speaks the truth has my vote(ie if if he needs it ). I treat all humans alike and men and women of knowledge just that , men and women of knowledge capable of doing mistakes and NOT infallible!!! AND my judge is the only FURQAN we have. AND Allah is sufficient for me.

thanks again

ASH

Congratulate LP on completing 75k Posts
339

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

what are parvezians? disciples of pervez musharraf?

340

Re: Javed Ahmed Ghamdi

[quote]
he is like ABU MUSA ALASHRI (a historic person)
[/quote]

lol , no i disagree ....ghamidi is a clever and trys to decieve others in the name of "moderation"