I always look at Ghamidi as a teacher and nothing more.
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Although, I'm new on this forum ... but I've been in the field of dawah thru net.
I've been on many forums of URDU language.
I dont think that u people doesnt know URDU.
so I'm trying to clear out this issue regarding BEARD ... in english as well as in URDU.
dear landaleav,
u wrote : I always look at Ghamidi as a teacher and nothing more.
ofcourse, Some Aima said that Ulema & Fuqha also comes in the category of what Quran called as Oolil-amr. A teacher who teaches Quran-o-Sunnah would also be regarded as an Alim-e-Deen.
lets read that verse again :
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ الرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلاً
(4:59)
check this verse with more attention, u will find that the word "atiu (obedience)" is attached with both Allah (swt) and Rasool(saw) but not with Oolil-Amr.
This means that :
[RIGHT]اللہ اور رسول کی اطاعت مستقل اور واجب ہے ۔ لیکن اولی الامر کی اطاعت ، اللہ اور رسول کی اطاعت سے مشروط ہے ۔ اسی لیے اس آیت میں اللہ اور رسول کے ساتھ ’اطیعو‘ کا لفظ تو ہے لیکن اولی الامر کے ساتھ نہیں ہے ۔
اس کی وضاحت بخاری کی اس حدیث سے ہوتی ہے جس میں رسول اللہ نے فرمایا ہے کہ ؛
اِنَّمَا الطَّاعَةُ فِي الْمَعْرُوفِ (اطاعت صرف معروف میں ہے )۔
Ref.: link not working ....
یعنی اللہ اور رسول اللہ کی اطاعت تو غیرمشروط ہے مگر علماء و فقہاء کی اطاعت قرآن و سنت سے مشروط ہے ۔
علماء و فقہاء اگر قرآن و سنت کی تعلیم سے ہٹ کر اگر کوئی حکم دیں گے تو ایسا ہر حکم قابلِ ردّ ہے ۔ [/RIGHT]
But regarding beard, this is not an issue raised by the religion.
this is the issue raised by Sunnah of prophet Muhammad(saw).
Below r 2 authentic ahaadeeth of RasoolAllah(saw) in which he is clearly giving ORDER to "grow beard"!!
If u r a follower of Muhammad(saw) do follow him(saw)
or if u r a follower of Ghamidi , follow him by throwing out the above said hadeeth from Sahi Bukhari (انما الطاعة في المعروف )
Ahaadeeth in proof of growing beard :
[RIGHT]حضرت ابن عمر رضی اللہ عنہ سے روایت ہے کہ رسول اللہ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا ؛
انهكوا الشوارب، واعفوا اللحى
مونچھیں صاف کرو اور ڈاڑھیوں کو معاف کرو ۔
صحیح بخاری ، كتاب اللباس ، باب : اعفاء اللحى ، حدیث : 5954
حضرت ابو ہریرہ رضی اللہ عنہ سے روایت ہے کہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا ؛
مونچھیں کاٹو اور داڑھیاں بڑھاؤ ، مجوسیوں کی مخالفت کرو ۔
صحیح مسلم ، كتاب الطهارة ، باب : خصال الفطرة ، حدیث : 626[/RIGHT]
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Although, I'm new on this forum ... but I've been in the field of dawah thru net.
I've been on many forums of URDU language.
I dont think that u people doesnt know URDU.
so I'm trying to clear out this issue regarding BEARD ... in english as well as in URDU.
dear landaleav,
u wrote :
I always look at Ghamidi as a teacher and nothing more.
ofcourse, Some Aima said that Ulema & Fuqha also comes in the category of what Quran called as Oolil-amr. A teacher who teaches Quran-o-Sunnah would also be regarded as an Alim-e-Deen.
lets read that verse again :
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ الرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلاً
(4:59)
check this verse with more attention, u will find that the word "atiu (obedience)" is attached with both Allah (swt) and Rasool(saw) but not with Oolil-Amr.
This means that :
[RIGHT]اللہ اور رسول کی اطاعت مستقل اور واجب ہے ۔ لیکن اولی الامر کی اطاعت ، اللہ اور رسول کی اطاعت سے مشروط ہے ۔ اسی لیے اس آیت میں اللہ اور رسول کے ساتھ ’اطیعو‘ کا لفظ تو ہے لیکن اولی الامر کے ساتھ نہیں ہے ۔
اس کی وضاحت بخاری کی اس حدیث سے ہوتی ہے جس میں رسول اللہ نے فرمایا ہے کہ ؛
اِنَّمَا الطَّاعَةُ فِي الْمَعْرُوفِ (اطاعت صرف معروف میں ہے )۔
Ref.: link not working ....
یعنی اللہ اور رسول اللہ کی اطاعت تو غیرمشروط ہے مگر علماء و فقہاء کی اطاعت قرآن و سنت سے مشروط ہے ۔
علماء و فقہاء اگر قرآن و سنت کی تعلیم سے ہٹ کر اگر کوئی حکم دیں گے تو ایسا ہر حکم قابلِ ردّ ہے ۔ [/RIGHT]
this is the issue raised by Sunnah of prophet Muhammad(saw).
Below r 2 authentic ahaadeeth of RasoolAllah(saw) in which he is clearly giving ORDER to "grow beard"!!
If u r a follower of Muhammad(saw) do follow him(saw)
or if u r a follower of Ghamidi , follow him by throwing out the above said hadeeth from Sahi Bukhari (انما الطاعة في المعروف )
Ahaadeeth in proof of growing beard :
[RIGHT]حضرت ابن عمر رضی اللہ عنہ سے روایت ہے کہ رسول اللہ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا ؛
انهكوا الشوارب، واعفوا اللحى
مونچھیں صاف کرو اور ڈاڑھیوں کو معاف کرو ۔
صحیح بخاری ، كتاب اللباس ، باب : اعفاء اللحى ، حدیث : 5954[/RIGHT]
[RIGHT]حضرت ابو ہریرہ رضی اللہ عنہ سے روایت ہے کہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا ؛
مونچھیں کاٹو اور داڑھیاں بڑھاؤ ، مجوسیوں کی مخالفت کرو ۔[/RIGHT]
[RIGHT]صحیح مسلم ، كتاب الطهارة ، باب : خصال الفطرة ، حدیث : 626[/RIGHT]
I disagree to your translation Some Aima said that Ulema & Fuqha also comes in the category of what Quran called as Oolil-amr, that Some Aima said that Ulema & Fuqha also comes in the category of what Quran called as Oolil-amr.
I am not sure if a reputable imam said it otherwise this word is treated as Ruler with sunnies and only Hazrat Ali with shia's. How come these Aima's came here to declare that they should be obeyed.
Now second point, the order for beard was to oppose the Majoosies who were the biggest enemies of Islam. Are they still now the biggest? Majosee soldiers used to keep big moustches and shave beard so this order was given to Muslim to be distinct.
I do not say not to keep beard as Hazrat Muhammad kept beard all his life but it is not the qualification of being a muslim as our ulemas say that if there is a bearded person available so imam should not be a beardless person and shaving is fisq etc etc.
Javed Ahmed Ghamdi is funded by West, and Geo TV Channel has made him mumtaz reiogious scholar in less than one or 2 years. The whole objective of this man is to through conspiracy theories on daily basis, and reduce the chance if Islamic Revolution. He has another agenda that is, to allow muslims to change their reliogion which is currently **
**west is looking. So i atleast do not like this Man.
Javed Ahmed Ghamdi is funded by West, and Geo TV Channel has made him mumtaz reiogious scholar in less than one or 2 years. The whole objective of this man is to through conspiracy theories on daily basis, and reduce the chance if Islamic Revolution. He has another agenda that is, to allow muslims to change their reliogion which is currently **
**west is looking. So i atleast do not like this Man.
Javed Ghamidi is not born today. He had been active member of Jama't-e-Islami for some time. I've even heard from some people from Jama't-e-Islami that Javed Ghamidi was such a bright person that if he wouldn't have problems with Maududi, he would be atleast Ameer of Jama't-e-Islami. No wonder, a person of this calibre is put in front of public gets fame quickly.
As far as his teachings go, they can be right or wrong, and one should have an open mind to listen anything as far as they are coming from Qur'an and Sunnah. Hence, I believe that making conspiracy theories are easy, but to actually become a scholar of a high calibre is difficult. In history if you see, even scholars like Imam Hambal and Imam Shafi'i had the same problem when they put forward their theology in public. They were badly opposed just because they disagreed with their present religious doctorine, but no one can say that they were totally wrong today. I would have similar feelings for Ghamidi. As a person one can disagree with him, but his basic stances are fully based in Qur'an and Sunnah.
One very important aspect of Javed Ghamidi is that he has internal coherence in his writings and all his speeches. This shows that his concepts (whether right or wrong) are very strong and are based on solid foundations. Even when people ask very difficult questions, he never leaves his basics. This is what everyone can appreciate. This is also a sign of a great philosopher and theologian as well.
Interestingly, I've read many articles criticizing Ghamidi but I never read a scholarly criticism on him. I think one atleast needs to know all our previous Sharia interpretations whether from classical or medievel or contemporary times and also a sound grip on Qur'an and hadith. But no body has really targetted Ghamidi from this angle. Rather people give loose comments just like 18plus gave, which doesn't lead to any conclusion. Some will compare Ghamidi with Mu'tazillites, some will compare him with Rashid Khalifa, some will compare him with Wahabis, some will compare him with Ahmadis. According to my understanding, people don't understand him first before criticizing him. Otherwise, it would be interesting to see Ghamidi's fallacies.
Some will compare Ghamidi with Mu'tazillites, some will compare him with Rashid Khalifa, some will compare him with Wahabis, some will compare him with Ahmadis.
Brother, the truth is scattered among all the sects (while none of them are completely correct), so anyone trying to pursue the truth will exibit a different "color" from different vintage-points, especially to sectarians themselves. I hope this clears any confusion.
Javed Ahmed Ghamidi is out of the fold of Islam as he goes against the Ijma' (consensus) of Ummah and according to Quran whoever goes against the Ijma' of Ummah is not a Believer. He is Musharraf's guy on his pay roll, believes in exactly the same things Christian missionaries want us to believe e.g Ghamidi denies hijab verses of Quran claiming that those verses were revealed only for the Mothers of Believers. Such Munafiqeen like Javed Ahmed Ghamidi reject everything which doesn't suit them, such are the people that have been condemned in Quran al Majeed that they receive Money to hide or tamper with the verses of Allah.
Believers are warned to stay away from this Munafiq and save their aakhirah.
Bro, why don't you let people verify for themselves and form their own opinion too? :)
BTW: I am not the biggest proponent of Ghamidi, since I disagree with him in some of his views (it's human to disagree) I would like to state that the pagan Isrealites during their exodus had an "Ijamaa" to worship the golden calf while Moses was away. Catch my drift bro?
Javed Ahmed Ghamidi is out of the fold of Islam as he goes against the Ijma' (consensus) of Ummah and according to Quran whoever goes against the Ijma' of Ummah is not a Believer. He is Musharraf's guy on his pay roll, believes in exactly the same things Christian missionaries want us to believe e.g Ghamidi denies hijab verses of Quran claiming that those verses were revealed only for the Mothers of Believers. Such Munafiqeen like Javed Ahmed Ghamidi reject everything which doesn't suit them, such are the people that have been condemned in Quran al Majeed that they receive Money to hide or tamper with the verses of Allah.
Believers are warned to stay away from this Munafiq and save their aakhirah.
Bro, why don't you let people verify for themselves and form their own opinion too? :)
Brother, problem is our majority (Muslims) are ignorant of Religion, you will find educated people who don't know what the fundamental beliefs of Islam are and they claim to be Muslims; in such scenario it is very probably that such majority can be misguided by Government Sponsored Islam in the media. Javed Ahmed Ghamidi is one of the big activists of Deen-e-Parvezi.
[quote]
I would like to state that the pagan Isrealites during their exodus had an "Ijamaa" to worship the golden calf while Moses was away. Catch my drift bro?
[/quote]
Brother, you are saying this because you don't read Quran, the Quran doesn't claim as you do above. According to Quran there were became two groups / factions among Bani Israeel behind Musa 'alayhis salam, one were still believers with Harun 'alayhis salaam while the others turned to Kafirs for worshipping the calf. That is the reason why Allah commanded those who remained believers to kill those who turned to apostates. In fact this is another proof in Quran al Majeed that the Apostates must be killed but Ghamidi is anti-Quranite, he must oppose Allah and His Apostle to please his kafir gods.
Brother, you are saying this because you don't read Quran, the Quran doesn't claim as you do above.
Sir, that is all I believe in and you're saying I don't read it :) have you read any of my posts?
According to Quran there were became two groups / factions among Bani Israeel behind Musa 'alayhis salam, one were still believers with Harun 'alayhis salaam while the others turned to Kafirs for worshipping the calf. That is the reason why Allah commanded those who remained believers to kill those who turned to apostates. In fact this is another proof in Quran al Majeed that the Apostates must be killed but Ghamidi is anti-Quranite, he must oppose Allah and His Apostle to please his kafir gods.
Bro can you provide the verses you think are talking about Moses having apostates killed?
002.054 And remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf: So turn (in repentance) to your Maker, and slay yourselves (the wrong-doers); that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned towards you (in forgiveness): For He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
002.054 And remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf: So turn (in repentance) to your Maker, and slay yourselves (the wrong-doers); that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned towards you (in forgiveness): For He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
Oh good so we can analyze this :D
فاقتلوا أنفسكم does not mean "Slay Yourselves" ... it means KILL YOUR EGO ...
Dear sister Hareem, if it meant "kill yourselves" literally, that would mean asking the people to "commit suicide" ... so all of a sudden, suicide becomes Khair ul-lahum ?? lol ... now how do you come out of this dillema
it means..........'kill yourselves (the innocent kill the wrongdoers among you),'
Hareem that is a totally incorrect translation... Kill the wrongdoers among you would have been just that... wrongdoers have been added in the translation in (BRACKETS) based on the a hadithist interpretation... SORRY sister. Unacceptable!